ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:04 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:33 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:22 am
Posts: 66
I have a very close friend who is downsizing in home size (square footage) in a significant way and doesn't have room for the gun collection in the new home so he's made me a generous offer. Several years ago he inherted a fantastic collection of classic American guns including a LC Smiths, Ithaca NID's, Model 21's, Model 42's pumps, ect. He's been good about maintaining them but he's really not much of a shooter or a collector. He knows that I love these classic pieces and offered to sell me anything I wanted at what a dealer would pay for it. That's what I'm struggling with.

I have most of the common reference materials (Catalogue of Firearms, etc..) and I watch the auction sites as well, primarily Guns International for pricing. Could anyone shed some light on how a dealer would structure an offer on guns like these? Would it be, for example, a certain percentage of a value for a gun as priced in the Standard Catalogue of Firearms or some other reference source? Obviously good dealers have instincs and a feel for the current market but I'm just looking for some sort of basis upon which to make him an offer. I'm sure that the values are a constantly moving target but any insight is appreciated.




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:18 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Alleycat,

Unfortunately it just does not work like you think. It all depends on the condition and grade of each individual Classic American double gun as to it value. A dealer might offer a lump sum for a collection that has no high grade guns and purchase the guns cheaply, however pristine high grade guns like the #5, 16 gauge L.C. Smith are not going for any kind of low cost.

If your friend will sell you a high grade L.C. Smith gun in pristine shape for a reasonable cost, purchase it!

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith man

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:31 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
Posts: 4209
Location: Western Tampa, FL
FWIW, the dealers I have gotten to know well, told me that their rule of thumb was to buy a gun for no more than 50-60% of what they believed they could receive when sold. There are many sources for gun prices but actual sale prices require a little more due diligence. Those are the prices that should govern your offers.

Another approach is to buy the whole lot, and sell what you don't want or need. Let your conscious pay back to your close friend any amount that you feel was far in excess of what you paid. The amount you give your friend will be appreciated and you both will remain close friends.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:55 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:22 am
Posts: 66
I really appreciate the responses and that's pretty much what I expected to hear. The 50%-60% of retail is understandable given the fluctuating marketplace on what are essentially high end collectables. To make matters worse we have a powerful group of politicians who see no difference between a Model 21 and an AR15 and would likely attempt to legislate accordingly were they to come into power. I grew up around these types of guns and truly love and appreciate the beauty, complexity and craftmanship that went into building them with good old fashioned machine tools. However, the fact of the matter IMHO is that the number of folks who feel the same way is shrinking daily and what's left of the the shooters are unaccepting of guns that have fixed chokes, can't shoot steel shot and no 3" & 3 1/2" chambers in 12G. I watch sites like Guns International and Gun Broker mostly for enjoyment and find that there's always a large number high end guns, with exceptions, that I mentioned previously, which are offered at huge numbers but they seem to just sit unsold. The market for most, but certainly not all, of these pieces seems greatly inflated and unrealistic. I'm sure that many will differ with my assessment but that just my opinion. Thanks again for the info.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:17 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:03 pm
Posts: 189
Alleycat,
I fully agree with your assessment as to interest in classic doubles. There will always be somewhat of demand for high end classic doubles. However, the scope of those interested and willing to pay for them is diminishing every year.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:44 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
deleted double post

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:47 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Doublesforever,

I agree with you analysis, nothing will stop the passage of time, and the men who have owned the fine guns will perish, let us hope there will always be sportsman who will appreciate fine double guns, and are willing to purchase them. I know our family guns will be passed down thru to the next generation, I truly hope they will be appreciated and used as we have done for many generation before. As long as there are Grouse & Woodcock to hunt in the Pa mountains, the men and ladies in our family will keep our family traditions alive using our double guns, that have been passed down thru time, for the next generation. There are many ways to place value on fine double guns.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

L.C. Smith #5 with Kraus Engraving of his own Ryman Setter Dogs.
Image

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:18 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:22 am
Posts: 66
Well put Dave and I appreciate your definition of value. I'm 56 years old and when look at the old family guns that I have, dating to the 1920's I think of the times spent shooting or hunting with my Dad, Uncles and Grandfathers, Thanksgiving and Christmas' past and all the times in between. All of those guns have a story to tell and no price can ever be placed upon something like that. I refuse to put my guns in a safe and I display them in racks in a room that I have in my home which is also adorned with a couple of comfortable chairs, old hunting ads, photos of beloved family dogs, cats and even some friends and relatives.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:11 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
Alleycat,

Although many of my guns are in the game room safe, I also have a nice gun cabinet in one of my office rooms. The guns are available at a moments notice for the protection of our family, and they also display well in that manner. I have little fear of anyone getting into may home with three big dogs having the run of the house most all the time. The guns mean a great deal to me, each one holds many memories of my child hood spent with my Grandfather, Father and brother. My father often told me I was a throw back to my Grandfathers era, I have little in common with city people and prefer the company of my dogs and the young hunters I mentor. Many of my friends have moved up stairs, including my Grandfather and Father, although it is lonely on the mountain at times, I am content with my freedom and my memories. I still hunt Grouse and Woodcock in our mountains, use our family guns and Bamboo Fly Rods as my ancestors did before me. I even enjoy talking with men like you on the sports forums. Life is good!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

The modern 28 Gauge L.C. Smith 28 gauge made by Zabala for Marlin.

Image

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:35 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:22 am
Posts: 66
Indeed it is. Not sure what I like more from your photo - the dog or the gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:53 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:39 pm
Posts: 4938
Turn it around--Make a list of the ones you'd like to have and ask HIM what he'll take for them. Then you can either go through with the sale or make a counter offer.

_________________
The root(s) of all evil:
-Political Correctness
-Insurance
-Securitization
Take your pick.

Always make an even number of mistakes. One may cancel out another.

"People who enjoy meetings should not be in charge of anything." --Thomas Sowell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:54 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:55 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Atlanta
I agree with Dave, Doubles, and AlleyCat. If you’re buying to hold and create a legacy asset, buy the finest gun you can and enjoy it. My main concern with the classic and fine gun market is the increasing age of the decreasing number of good dealers. Few if any have an internal or external succession plan. Let one or two of them leave the market suddenly and watch the disruption in the markets for high end classics as well as run of the mill stuff they’ve acquired in trades. I doubt any of the good young dealers have the cash to buy- out a more established dealer, and given the election results, most major lenders could return to their PC position of reduced lending to gun dealers. Other than that, GA quail season is upon us and I’ve established the batting order for my SxS’s that will take me through February.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:39 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
7Dawg9,

So far I have not had any problem purchasing any of the graded double guns I happen to like. You do make good points about what could be happening to the double gun market however.

With so many of the gun dealers using Guns International and Gun Broker these days it's not hard to find the guns you most want to purchase, especially graded guns. In the past few months I have picked up some nice graded L.C. Smith double guns, including a #5 gun that I have been looking to acquire with Kraus's engraving of his own Ryman Setters.

I also recommend the Vendors in the Shooting Sportsman Magazine, I have picked up several beautiful Best Guns in this manner.

At times GI & GB are a little high in their asking prices, always make a counter offer when purchasing.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:35 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:55 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Atlanta
Dave, so true. I recently asked a dealer for his best price on a gun listed for $18,000. He replied, “ I’ll ship it insured to you for $15,500. I had it listed at $18k so nobody would think I would sell it for $10k.” :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Value of Classic Doubles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:09 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:36 pm
Posts: 893
Location: Endless Mountains of PA
7Dawg9,

Your experience purchasing is right on the money. Many of the guns are list well above what the seller will actually settle for. In most cases at least $500.00 to $800.00 over actual purchase price. Now do not get me wrong, some of these Vendors will not budge at all, most however will negotiate, especially if the gun has been up on the board for a while.

Good graded SXS double guns will always cost the purchaser some serious money. Expect to pay some serious money for L.C. Smith, Fox, Parker, Ithaca and LeFever Graded guns in pristine condition.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man



_________________
L.C. Smith Man
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers
Charlton Heston NRA Speakers Bureau Member
NRA Life Member/NRA Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 351 power, Anatidae, Bad English, bgnmi, BigDeeeeeeee, bigeejakes, Bing [Bot], Bob_K, brnzbk, browning66, Byron Whitlock, casonet, chadwilsonc, Cooper4141, CZMark, D McMillen, DblXX, Denver1911, dogchaser37, doppelflinten, ebert, Ezra Smack, Feist Hunter, garrisonjoe, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], gthudspeth, hopper810, Jackaugustus, jimgw, johnnie g, jtf650, komatsu, kyskeet, llc, Lu 45, mark-60, maxrios, mcarter, Mchurch52, moonjeong, olddrum, oldshotty, oldtechshooter, oneeyednine1029, pjmx, pump shooter, Rack-N-Roy, ric1911a1, rickeroo, Rockett0, Rooster booster, RUT, salish, scott12v, shacked, shotgunmanny, snooky, SnowRider1, Supervet, T-Pee, thor_sen, TimNichols, ttrailz, UnderBeforeOver12, Waldyo, wjonessc, zxcvbnm


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice