It is currently Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:28 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 953 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43 ... 48  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:48 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Brinton, MI
I'd go with one of the lighter bullets he sells,
I had best luck in bpi sabots with lighter ones.
You still have problem of sabots being undersize.
And that affected accuracy.He has 600g, 565gr and 440gr.
If sabots will grab rifling ok the nef will stabilize
even heavy bullets. Price is great you won't know
until you try one of them.Ed




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:00 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Posts: 77
Im gonna cut to the chase...

Heres what Im looking for..... a hardcast/solid slug (preferably full bore)) as heavy as i can accurately shoot getting about 5000 ft.lbs. of energy and getting at least a 400 on the thornily relative stopping power scale but preferably a little higher. I would prefer it to be in a 3" plastic case if possible. I will not be re-reloading the hulls after i shoot them. I will be using an H&R Ultra Slug Hunter Deluxe.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:28 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Brinton, MI
I just got 500gr 58cal in accutip sabot over 2000, that is 5000 ft lbs.
Easier in 3.5" cases. And in 3.5" can get 10% more than that
Takes very little to go to 3.5" in NEF and buy primed 3.5'
cases from BPI. And we'll have sabots soon, and they
make 600gr 58cal also you could use. To go fullbore heavy slugs
probably have to cast your own.

Test in 3.5" plastic using a few accutip 12ga sabots out of factory loads.
The 12ga accutip sabot, hard cast 440gr 58cal minie slug in
36" rifled NEF at 2200, and it went through 12 inches of wood like
butter. The hole out showed it was starting to expand a little.

Test of softer lead 500gr 58cal Minie with deeper hollowbase in accutip
in smooth cylinder bore barrel at 2000, and 3 shots in 3" at 30 yds.
This was a Lyman 575213 new style minie slug
More experimenting can make these work fair in smooth barrels.
For best accuracy use a blunt nose heavier 58cal 600gr slug with
deepest hollow in the base. The blunt nose would be more front end
heavy and a little more accurate from smooth bore..
Lee and Lyman have molds like that.Others selling slugs also.

I mentioned before about seals/wads must be stable and not crush
down off center, or it might affect accuracy. Here is picture of
the one piece seal and wad Federal uses in their sabot loads.
Notice it doesn't have a lot of space in the cushion part that would
allow it to tip or go off center.

Image

Here is picture of some 10ga work using expanded 69cal minie and
700cal bullets in 10ga wadcup. 69cal hollowbase fairly accurate to
50yds in heavy barrel smoothbore.

Image

Here is picture of the Savage 110 done in my 585HE. Hollow butt of the
stock is weighted, gun handles nice.Ed

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:32 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Brinton, MI
Check with Greg on here for fullbore slugs.Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:06 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 1318
Location: Iselin, N J
Hello Ed, can you explain in detail the load you used for:
"I just got 500gr 58cal in accutip sabot over 2000, that is 5000 ft lbs"
piece by piece IN A LAYMAN TERMS, so any one can assemble it LIKE THIS!
Image

Can you please give details of this load too, piece by piece oo , please:
"Test of softer lead 500gr 58cal Minie with deeper hollowbase in accutip
in smooth cylinder bore barrel at 2000"
BUT WITH A 24 INCH REGULAR BARREL AND NOT 36 INCHER!
Thanks again Ed, you are a good man, even tho you come from the Hell camp!
Just kidding!
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:02 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Posts: 77
x2 ..like i said im new to this, i need things basically handed to me. Where did you get the sabots as well?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:48 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Brinton, MI
The sabots are ones we took from Remington Accutip loads
and put our slugs in them. Just for testing, not in great numbers
as that would be too expensive. We are working to get them
made so we can buy just the sabot for reloading say for same or little
less than the bpi undersize sabots. They should be ready by falll.

Ajay my only rifled barrel is 36" and only smooth is 32" , that is
all I have have now. I don't keep short barrels very long.
Velocitiies in 24" will be about 100-150 fps less.

Both loads in 3.5" REM STS green cases. Rem STS primer Both with
accutip sabot setting on x12x seal and 1/4 white felt/fiber wad.
Same seal and white wad REM had in factory accutip loads I took apart.
Powder was 100gr of IMR 4759, compressed hard and enough room for
medium length roll crimp down over the top edge of the sabot.
The slugs are tight in sabot and down inside, so they don't need to have the crimp
directly down on them. In pic on left.Ed

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:37 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 1318
Location: Iselin, N J
Ok Ed, now that we got your undevided attention:

I just got 500gr 58cal in accutip sabot over 2000, that is 5000 ft lbs
Both loads in 3.5" REM STS green cases. Rem STS primer Both with
accutip sabot setting on x12x seal and 1/4 white felt/fiber wad.
Powder was 100gr of IMR 4759, compressed hard and enough room for
medium length roll crimp down over the top edge of the sabot.
Image
Now Ed, does this picture represents your load 100% to your satisfaction or are there some mistakes in the picture, correction, please!
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:08 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 1318
Location: Iselin, N J
Hello Ed, let me take the liberty to ask if this load of 100 gr 4759 be safe in a Remington 1100
autoloader shotgun with .870" at the muzzle rifled barrel or it would blow it!

What load did you use for:
The 12ga accutip sabot, hard cast 440gr 58cal minie slug in
36" rifled NEF at 2200.
Can you explain piece by piece.
Thanks Ed, I'm sure a lot of shooters will try your load, now!
I'll be at the range testing 20 ga loads and 12 ga, any load that is safe in my regular gun that you want me to try?
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:52 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Posts: 77
I'm kinda wanting to use products from bpi, so i don't have to use stuff from other shells. Is the bpi RSS-12 sabot undersized? I don't understand how this could be any less accurate than factory loads. I decided that I would be ok with a 500 grain bullet. So if I got a hardcast .500" 500 grain bullet, stuck it in the RSS sabot why should I need to use remington/winchester,federal...etc sabot over the RSS? It should serve the same purpose.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:13 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Brinton, MI
Not with only .870" muzzle/ should .930" minimum muzzle.

Same powder ,100gr of 4759 ,with the 440gr cast. It is 440gr I got
from Dixie gunworks.Same wads and seal. In 3.5" case. Other brands
of cases would work as long as they aren't soft basecups. Fed and Win should work..
You could use any good plastic seal, A bpi cup seal would do with 28ga
card in its top recess to give level support to the cushion. In this combo,
the two things you always keep are the the great accutip or coming later
its replacement sabot and the felt cushion. If using smaller amounts
of faster powder like Alliant Steel go with 1/2" cushion. Ed

About sabot --The RSS and the earler grey BPI sabot take 50 cal slugs.
All other factory 12ga sabots except accutip take 50cal slugs
The accutip is only one taking 58cal slugs. I like it best as it in most testing was
number one for accuracy. And 58 cal slugs are easy to cast or buy.
So we are going get one made similiar to that.

About sabot size- Being under size does affect accuracy when like the
blue one it is .712" or .017' under groove size. My nef groove size is .729".
Which is smaller than land diameter of .719"in the barrels.
So it isn't getting the best purchase on rifling. The accurate factory sabots like accutip
are oversize as the plastic compresses and it gets best bite to impart spin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:37 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Posts: 77
Ed,
Let me throw another bit of info out hoping for a load.

Heres my criteria:
-Must be composed of pre-made materials (ie. not stripping apart other hulls for their components).
-Think I might use the Lyman 525gr slug.
-3" hull
- Max Velocity (hoping for at least 1900fps out of 24"bbl)
-trying to reach only 4000 ft lbs of energy with this one.


Heres my concerns:
-Lyman slug will buckle when its enters the animal because of the hollow base. True or False?
-The slug needs a star crimp, but I roll crimp. Could I throw an overshot card on top and roll crimp it?

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:41 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 1318
Location: Iselin, N J
Hello SlugShooter, here are your choices in wads:
Image
You can roll crimp them and I like my roll crimpe deep like in this picture and on a drill press!
Image
Image
Use 3 inch Fed. GM hulls and 50 gr of Blue Dot for some 1700+ fps
at your own risk, if your fillings come loose from this load, dont look at me, I'm broke!
This is what a Lyman does:
Image
Try one with 6 point fold crimp and one with deep roll crimp and shoot over chrono to check for velocity!
For faster loads, Ed will take over and have a chirapractor on hand, ready for a massage!
This family of Slug Shooters is fun to be around, and its commedy time!
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:48 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Brinton, MI
Our testing with stuff taken from factory loads
is only temporary.

The Lyman won't buckle easy if made from hard alloy,
And if it buckles a little it will do great damage.

I always prefer roll crimping as long as slug or sabot
can be roll crimped against. It is best for slugs as
it seems consistant and is shown that also by the big
ammo companies doing the same,
they roll crimp only for slugs.Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:15 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Posts: 77
VdoMemorie wrote:
Use 3 inch Fed. GM hulls and 50 gr of Blue Dot for some 1700+ fps
at your own risk, if your fillings come loose from this load, dont look at me, I'm broke!
..........
Try one with 6 point fold crimp and one with deep roll crimp and shoot over chrono to check for velocity!
For faster loads, Ed will take over and have a chirapractor on hand, ready for a massage!
This family of Slug Shooters is fun to be around, and its commedy time!
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
http://www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

haha :D
Is the 50 gr of Blue Dot safe? I cant try the fold crimps as I dont have a press, but I'm getting the bench drill press for the roll crimping. Does the depth of the roll crimp have anything to do will pressure spiking?

Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:45 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 1318
Location: Iselin, N J
Hello SlugShooter, start with
3 inch Fed. GM hull, Fed 209 primer, starting load of 47 gr of Blue Dot
next 48, 48.5, 49 gr, 49.5 and then finally 50 gr of Blue Dot, look for pressure signs or extraction marks etc,
Image
Image
now cut a 1 inch square of any photocopy paper lying around, now push this down with a .625"
( 5/8" ) wooden dowel over the powder to gently cover it.
Image
I hate this powder seeping issue so this is how I fix it!
Now take Hornady Versalite red wad or Fed.12S-4 brown wad and put a .125 nitro card of 16 ga at the bottom of the shot cup and then the slug on top of it!
Now place the hull on a weighing scale and with the wooden dowel push it down till the scale reads 40 to 45 lbs, roll crimp right away for a 1/4" deep crimp like in my picture above on the right reading
40 gr of steel!
Its fun time now go shoot and report back with the target picture and a chiropractor bill!
Do the above at your own risk and from a barrel of at least.905" at the muzzle for your own safety!
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
http://www.PreciousVideoMemories.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:47 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 969
Location: Brinton, MI
It is safe, but start at 45gr and check extraction in your gun.
go up a grain at a time. We have used 50 gr with lyman ok.
A good thing to have is calipers so as to measure how far the
base cup of the cases used are expanding.

My MEC super sizer makes all the bases .803" or less.
Most chambers at the base are .813". If cases are measuring
.813" they may extract hard. My tests have shown that the good hard
base cases like REM, WIN if measuring around .811" closely
matched the lab tests of 14,700 psi. Softer cases measuring
.811" are running about 11,000 from info in the manuals
and others published data, where I loaded from the data and
measured them just to get a feel of what is happening
in my particular gun the NEF. That ole NEF is the main 12ga
workhorse here.ED.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:51 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Posts: 77
Look at what I found! http://slugsrus.com/store/product75.html

slugarus.com seem like a good shop


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:32 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:48 pm
Posts: 77
Do you guys think it has enough mass to grab the rifling?

Thanks
Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 12GA 3 & 3/4 (From Hell)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:50 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 1318
Location: Iselin, N J
Hello Slug Shooter, you ask tough questions, the truth can be very hard to accept!
In my Savage I can easily push the sabot in and pull it out by hand like this:
Image
Image
now in my Remington 1100 - Ithaca barrel is tighter and it fits better while the Savage is a bit over bored!
Please, next time ask good questions so I can give good answers!
See, I told you we are a good family of Slug Shooters, you have a wonderful day!
Ajay
Video Memories
VdoMemorie's-Blazing Sabots
http://www.PreciousVideoMemories.com




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 953 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43 ... 48  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 510jack, Akent51, Bing [Bot], Chubakka, derbyacresbob, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, hass28, ithacanut, jstanfield103, Ketchjr


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice