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 Post subject: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 48
I need to work up a load for my Savage 220 (20 gauge). I'm a long time brass reloader but new to shotgun loading. What are the pressure signs when working up a slug load. Do I hit the usual suspects like casehead expansion and primer backing/flatening/cratering? Is there anything else I should watch for?



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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Location: Western Washington State, USA
You don't work up shotgun loads. There are no reliable pressure signs or so I have been told repeatedly.

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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:04 pm
Posts: 260
Location: new jersey
29g of blue dot and the ccs with the 300g, or go to 54.2-55g of 4227 with the 250g both 45cal. Use new Fiocchi or Cheddite hulls. You said you order them, get a roll crimper and a few bags of .125cards. Don't use a lot of pressure to seat them, 50lbs. Use a mec 600 and on the end of the wad ram, fit a plastic button for hollow points or get the tapered ramrod adapter for muzzle loaders to do pointed ones. Three inch hulls give you more room for different bullet shapes.


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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:27 pm 
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The only sign you'll get of overpressure w/ a shotgun load is when your receiver disintegrates. Other than that, you don't "work up loads", you go with a tested book load if you value your firearm and life.

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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:04 pm
Posts: 260
Location: new jersey
Those loads were tested by ccs.


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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 48
Thanks, guys. I've got everything I need now including the CCS load info, Cheddite 3 inch hulls, CCS sabots, cards, seals, BPI roll crimper and hull vice. CCS says 55 gr 4227 (I've heard it burns dirty but I already have 8 lbs of this stuff for my pistols so I'll start here) with a 250 gr bullet, but then goes on to say that it may take more or less powder for "satisfactory results". I'm trying to define that term and then learn to recognise it when I see it. I'll be shooting some of the above loads this week.

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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:04 pm
Posts: 260
Location: new jersey
After you load them put them in and out of the freezer a few times. Seems to help them out. Older ones shoot better. Much more consistant. Don't clean the gun. Just keep shooting as long as it will group. Clean it if it starts to mess up. Then try just brushing it, then a dry patch. Let the barrel cool between shots. The heavier 300g is the go to load if you have problems. It always groups. Faster twists are good with the 250g load. Don't clean it when you are done, just put it away.


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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 48
jwtietz wrote:
After you load them put them in and out of the freezer a few times. Seems to help them out. Older ones shoot better. Much more consistant. Don't clean the gun. Just keep shooting as long as it will group. Clean it if it starts to mess up. Then try just brushing it, then a dry patch. Let the barrel cool between shots. The heavier 300g is the go to load if you have problems. It always groups. Faster twists are good with the 250g load. Don't clean it when you are done, just put it away.


Thanks

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 Post subject: Ret: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:05 am
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we live in the southeast part of Va. we shoot slug guns every thing from hasting barrels on 1100,s to single shots,lead sleds to keep them from beeting us up.we to are starting the quest for a true 200yrd plus slug. maybe we can swap stories.


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 Post subject: Re: Ret: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 48
mmc(sw) wrote:
we live in the southeast part of Va. we shoot slug guns every thing from hasting barrels on 1100,s to single shots,lead sleds to keep them from beeting us up.we to are starting the quest for a true 200yrd plus slug. maybe we can swap stories.

Here in CT I had my Savage 220 out yesterday shooting handloads. All were in 20 Gauge with CCS sabots. 57 gr of 4227 behind a 250 gr 452 Flextip registered 1629, 1573, 1653, 1632, 1602, 1662, 1574 feet per second. Every group starts with a pair of holes an inch apart @ 100 then the next shot opens the group up to anything from 2 to 4 1/2 inches. I don't know what I'm doing wrong as I'm super consistant with my loading procedure, pushing gas seals, card wads and sabots down the same every time. My roll crimps look as good as factory rounds. I run a dry bronze brush down the bore twice between shots as the 4227 is kinda dirty. Yet I get flyers that I can't explain. While new to slug loading I'm a seasoned centerfire loader and smoke pole stuffer. I also tried 300 gr XTP's pushed by 55 gr 4227 and MV's for this load were 1471, 1579, 1601, 1588, 1541, 1585, 1630. As you can see, the 300's were just as fast as the 250's. Those 300 gr XTP's group 3 inches @ 200 yds in my 209x50 Encore (launched @ 1700fps) and I would love to duplicate those results with my shotgun. I don't know if powder goes bad but my son gave me this can of 4227 and it's at least 5 years old. I'm trying to find other powders to try ( like LONGSHOT) but I haven't found and candidates locally yet. The hazmat fees are killers as a 28 dollar can of powder costs about 65 bucks by the time I get it in my hand. The 250 gr Flextip load is sighted in 3 inches high @ 100 and drops 17 inches @ 200. I did mange to put two holes in a 4 inch bull @ 200 yds by holding over 17 inches but they were my last two rounds and I'm sure if I shot another one it would have been a flyer. Do you guys load for 20 ga?

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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:03 am
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Not true that you never get pressure signs --- more truefully said --- it is possible that you wont get pressure signs

Usually you do though --- sticky extraction is the most common --- especially with single shot break guns --- get them all the time and then half to back off when loading for my big H&R bull barrel ultra slug gun in 12 bore 3.5 inch length shells --- but then I load really heavy loads --- and that gun is much stronger then regular shotguns

It is totally possible that with certain weaker guns (lots of cheap pump guns are weak guns) --- and with a strong hull like a high brass old AA hull that is one piece --- (yes they did make some high brass old one peice plastic AA hulls) and with a hot load that the first pressure sign you get is a cracked receiver or worse --- but with a strong gun and hulls that arent one peice but have seperate little plastic disk (or wound paper) inside bottom of hull that it will get pressure sign of sticky extraction --- DONT LOOK AT PRIMERS THOUGH --- on shotgun loads the primers dont tell you anything except the strength of the primer cups and how strong your hammer strike is --- pierced primers mean brittle or too thin primer cups --- and/or --- too heavy striker or hammer spring --- and/or --- too long of primer pin --- and/or --- too steep of angle on primer pin strike on lower barrel on over under --- that all it mean --- dont mean squat for pressure of load


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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 48
tommygirlMT wrote:
Not true that you never get pressure signs --- more truefully said --- it is possible that you wont get pressure signs

Usually you do though --- sticky extraction is the most common --- especially with single shot break guns --- get them all the time and then half to back off when loading for my big H&R bull barrel ultra slug gun in 12 bore 3.5 inch length shells --- but then I load really heavy loads --- and that gun is much stronger then regular shotguns

It is totally possible that with certain weaker guns (lots of cheap pump guns are weak guns) --- and with a strong hull like a high brass old AA hull that is one piece --- (yes they did make some high brass old one peice plastic AA hulls) and with a hot load that the first pressure sign you get is a cracked receiver or worse --- but with a strong gun and hulls that arent one peice but have seperate little plastic disk (or wound paper) inside bottom of hull that it will get pressure sign of sticky extraction --- DONT LOOK AT PRIMERS THOUGH --- on shotgun loads the primers dont tell you anything except the strength of the primer cups and how strong your hammer strike is --- pierced primers mean brittle or too thin primer cups --- and/or --- too heavy striker or hammer spring --- and/or --- too long of primer pin --- and/or --- too steep of angle on primer pin strike on lower barrel on over under --- that all it mean --- dont mean squat for pressure of load

Good to get another perspective. I'm glad you broached the subject of the relative strength of different shotguns as I had been wondering about that myself. I would think a load that's safe in a pump or autoloader with a paper thin barrel held into an aluminum reciever by a nut on the magazine tube could be boosted considerably when used in an Ultra Sug Hunter or a bolt action with front locking lugs. So far I've got a 300 gr XTP going 1600 fps in my SAV 220 but my goal is 1700. I get effortless extraction and can easliy rechamber a fired round. The casehead grows .002 to .003. Thanks for sharing your primer observations.

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 Post subject: Re: Working upa Slug Load
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:05 am
Posts: 3
just got finshed loading up 3 boxes and when my partner can take me up to the range a will get back with you guys. i to am a long time brass reloader 223 through 300 wsby our last toys were 6.5 grendels.




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