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 Post subject: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:40 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 153
I have been shooting my new Guerini Summit AT Trap gun for a few months now.

Recently acquired a full set of 'DTS' extras, namely 4 of the 30 gram barrel weights and also a Kinetic balancer/recoil reducer for going inside the stock.

With everything attached, my Guerini is very much heavier but I have always preferred a heavy gun, indeed my scores are noticeably better with the extra weight. I don't know why, perhaps because the second shot is so much easier with the recoil absorbed with the extra weight.

Some comments.

At first, the barrel weights would sometimes come loose with the recoil of hotter shells. So I applied a nice dollop of friction damper grease along the inside edge of the barrel weights and have never had the problem again. Damper grease is readily available on the likes of ebay, used by the RC modelling/flying community, you won't need much.

The Kinetic Balancer. I love this, it really does help soften recoil. But there was a very slight, short-lived 'twangy' sensation on firing, perhaps the noise and feel of the springs compressing and releasing. Again, I applied some friction damper grease to the seat of each end of each of the springs, and also a small amount to the sides of the springs (see image).

The end result is a very, very smooth sensation now on firing, no spring twang. Damn it feels sweet.

Hope this helps, these systems are great.

Image




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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:29 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 97
Location: North West UK
That's interesting. What grade of grease works best and where did you apply it?
Have you tried varying the spring compression to see what effect it has on recoil?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 153
The Guerini instructions state half an inch of spring space each side of the weights for optimal recoil reduction. I haven't varied from that, I guess they did plenty experiments first.

I placed a small amount, a matchstick-head sized amount, around the bottom of both end of each spring - where they contact the weights and the lock caps. Same very small amount on the middle area of the springs as shown. You don't need much.

I used the 'Hard' rating of friction grease.

If you search 'Hard Friction Damper Grease' on that auction site, you can see the little tubes of it are widely available.

I keep the grease off the outsides of the sliding weights, it's very VERY sticky stuff as you might imagine. I find a little container of isopropyl alcohol is great for wiping it off where it shouldn't be.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 97
Location: North West UK
That's excellent! I will give that a go. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 8486
Location: New York
I have a Kinetic Balancer and took it out because it keep making noise. It look like you have a improved one. Is there a extra spring under the coil spring?
John

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:37 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 97
Location: North West UK
yes, there is on my impact, bought Sept 2010 in UK, a smaller black spring under each of the recoil springs. To be honest, I don't feel the twangy sensation or the noise. Looking at Norberts photo, I cannot see the black inner spring on his DTS. I wonder if the inner spring is a recent 'fix'?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 153
Gjb123 wrote:
yes, there is on my impact, bought Sept 2010 in UK, a smaller black spring under each of the recoil springs. To be honest, I don't feel the twangy sensation or the noise. Looking at Norberts photo, I cannot see the black inner spring on his DTS. I wonder if the inner spring is a recent 'fix'?



That's interesting, I didn't know about the other black springs.

I'll look into it and report back here.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 153
Gjb123 wrote:
yes, there is on my impact, bought Sept 2010 in UK, a smaller black spring under each of the recoil springs. To be honest, I don't feel the twangy sensation or the noise. Looking at Norberts photo, I cannot see the black inner spring on his DTS. I wonder if the inner spring is a recent 'fix'?


Gjb123, are you able to upload a closeup photo of the different spring?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:55 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 97
Location: North West UK
Hi Norbert

They are black springs, about 1/2 the thickness of the main silver springs and about the same length. They fit on the shaft under each of the main springs. As they are not very thick I can't see what effect they would have in recoil reduction, my guess is they are some form of guide spring but I don't know, I am not a spring expert :?

I am sure if you drop an email to CG (gunshop@gueriniusa.com) they will explain there function and maybe put two in the post to you. :?:

If you find out I would be interested to know what they are for? :)

Let me know how you get on.
Graham


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:40 am 
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How does the CG DTS recoil reduction compare to a Ken Rucker bumpbuster system?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:09 pm 
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Location: New York
I sent a email to CG and they are sending out the inter spring for my DTS.
I did shoot a gun with a bumpbuster. It is a better recoil devise but it not a balance system like the DTS.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:49 pm 
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The CG system won't even come close to a recoil reducing system like a Bumpbuster, nor was it ever designed to.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 97
Location: North West UK
Kraiza, did CG explain what the inner spring is meant to do?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:12 am 
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Location: New York
No they didn't tell me. I though it was to help the out side spring for bottom out and rattle. I will ask them. Good question.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:46 am
Posts: 554
Location: MD
I bought one for my Maxum and did not feel it did much, took it out and forgot about it, figured out the Maxum had a pitch problem and when I corrected that the gun is a joy to shoot.
When I got the Impact I remembered the balancer and put it in the Impact with all three weights on it, the gun was noticeably softer shooting, tried 2 weights and could feel more recoil so went back to 3, the gun is very soft shooting with the balancer in it and I like the additional weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the DTS systems
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:07 pm 
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I have the Guerini DTS recoil reducer, which lives in the stock of my CG Impact Challeger; and the total weight of the gun with a 28 gauge tube inserted is 9 lbs. 11-7/8 oz. This is a bit hefty for some; but it's ideal for me for skeet - even though I'm an old geezer.

In my quest to reduce recoil to the minimum, I talked to Ron Huffman (California fitter of the ISIS Recoil Systems) about installing the ISIS system in the stock of my Challenger and having it co-reside with the inserted DTS recoil reducer. He is skeptical that that will work because of the way the DTS and the Impact's stock bolt tube interface. However, Ron is an expert machinist as well as gun-fitter; and he said that if I sent him the gun stock assembly he'd take a look to see if he might be able to work out a solution so that both the ISIS and DTS systems could co-exist in the stock. I think I'll be doing just that - and if comes down to choosing between the DTS system and the ISIS system separately, I'll probably forego the DTS and go with the ISIS.

Even though I know from personal experience that the DTS recoil system is quite good for absorbing recoil in the Impact, I'm convinced that the ISIS system will do considerably better. If I have the ISIS installed (which I intend to do) and Ron can't arrive at a reliable way to have both recoil devices together in the stock, I'll just remove the DTS device altogether. Removal of the DTS reducer in the stock will subtract about 6 oz from the weight of the gun; but addition of an ISIS adjustable butt plate and greenpad in addition to the ISIS recoil system should come out as an approximate wash in terms of weight vis-a-vis the CG's current weight - maybe a couple of ounces or so lighter.




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