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Tom,

The only sollution to this problem I could ever come up with was a shot weight class, but nobody liked the idea. 3/4 and 7/8 ounce 12 ga are common. 1/2 ounce would take somebody doing it, but it is possible. If you allowed it, the game could be shot with one gun and one reloader.

I brought this up with our skeet group las week and got nods of approval.

I load 5/8 oz in my 12 ga now so with a better sized wad 1/2 oz is doable. I have used 1/2 oz with fillers and they work. Just better with a specialized wad.

David, what is your specialized wad for 5/8 ounce loads? What does your crimp look like? What loader do you use?

What wad and what powder? Idealy you would need a very fast powder to develop presure behind 1/2 ounce.

I use Promo powder with the CB or DR 7/8 oz wad. I use a Mec 650. Crimps are dished in but by adjusting the loader the crimp is sealed well. I basically use Case's instructions for adjusting the loader. Promo powder burns slow in this load and is quite dirty and a little louder due to the powder still burning as it exits the barrel. I have chronographed my reloads in the past and they averaged about 1190 fps with the deviation being as good as any others. I am a cheapskate so I pick components based on cost as long as they perform. I choose Nobel Sport primers, Promo powder, CB or DR wads and whatever the cheapest #9 shot I can find.



I believe the REX 0 powder would work fine for 1/2 oz. If I could get a wad column that did not require fillers I would try some. The slower burning Promo would probably work but it would be dirty and noisy. The dirt can be eliminated by firing a clean burning load the last shot of the day.

BTW, my 5/8 oz loads function well in my 1100 and Browning Gold as long as I keep them fairly clean.

These good ideas make a lot of sense to me. However, if we restrict some of the Skeet events to only those who are ammo/reloading specialist, we will reduce our already dwindling numbers. Consider the huge pool of young, future NSSA members. They now have to become accomplished "reloaders" before being qualified to participate in these Skeet events.

If a bunch of us were really interested, we could have some contract loaded and delivered by mail. A flat lasts a long time when you are shooting 50 bird events. Why did you pull your post Tom? Getting shy in your old age??

I don't think the idea is to restrict events but to add the ability for folks to join in. Example, instead of calling it the 28 ga event it could be called the 3/4 oz event. What real difference is between a true 28 ga gun, a 12 ga gun with 28 ga tubes and a 12 ga gun with 3/4 oz loads. Some may argue the 12 ga gun with 3/4 oz shot patterns better but IMHO it would be insignificant.

Wonderful Idea. It's also a perfect scenario for the dishonest to ploy their dirty work. Without factory ammo, it simply would be a cheaters delight.

Don't think so??? Then you certainly haven't been around long. People will do ANYTHING to win, or get an advantage over the next person. Sad, but true. Even among shooters.

I thought we were attempting to provide ideas that are feasible/practical solutions to declining participation in NSSA skeet. Not what is possible for advanced reloaders. But hey maybe the rules committee will work it out, after all they did away with the rules mandating DQ if you're caught with out-sized loads.

Thank you DLM.

Dave / Glen,

Now, you two guys are making good sense. Until the old pro's can talk about innovative ideas that will appeal to the vast pool of new perspective members, and still have the flexibility for quick and easy implementation, Skeet will never gain the momentum required to turn the trend and become prosperous.

Later today, I will start a new thread to toss around some ideas for the low-end of our classification tables that will be a better fit and thus more appealing to new shooters.

Zac

Gee dave, I can put 1 ounce in my 28 ga now, but I don't do it. What's the difference? Loaded in a clear hull with a clear wad it would be easy to police, and you could challenge just as we do now.

I'm not throwing cold water, I'm just talking reality.

Clear hulls HUH? From where and at what price?? No Clear hulls exist to my knowledge except in the cavornous straight sided hulls, and you suggest loading 1/2 oz. loads in these?? Or even 3/4 oz. loads?? They barely can load those tiny loads in the tapered wall cases. And just who is going to invest the 100's of thousands of dollars to produce the molds for the production of the necessary wads????

And because of the very limited sales involved, If you could get the Factories to make them, they would cost upwards of $10 per box.

Get real guys. I'm not suggesting the idea isn't well intended and interesting. However it's about as feasable as changing the targets to Ritz Crackers. Yea, it could be done, probably last a whole month before it went the way of the Do-Do Bird.

I would wholeheartedly support one gun shoots, to make it feasable to more shooters, but downloading 4 different payloads in the 12 ga. simply ISNT a FEASABLE alternative.

DLM

http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/m ... 2_GA_2_3-4

Lots of manufactureers make clear hulls. Here are some from Fiochi for 10 cents. To much space in a hull? Never a problem if you have the right wad. Yes somebody would have to commission a 1/2 ounce wad mold, not 100's of k. $10/box? We pay $12 for 410 and 28 now and those hulls cost 20 cents once fired. The 1/2 ounce could be contract loaded for $6 a box max (there is no shot in them) provided we could come up with a wad. I'll look into it.

If folks want to cheat they can do it now. Anyone that wants to can put in extra shot in any of the four gauges. If cheating reloads is seen as a possible problem then it should have already been banned.

There are manufactures that now make 7/8 oz loads in the 12 gauge. A lot of my friends shoot the Nobel Sport 7/8 oz load for its reduced recoil advantage. With that in mind, why would it not be feasable for non-reloaders to shoot those 7/8 oz loads in a 20 ga event. Remember the goal is to get more folks envolved. Lots of folks only have one gun and they would like to particpate but can't. I attended a 4x50 a couple weeks ago and got a new shooter to attend. He shared my 20, 28 and .410 with me. I have an adjustable stock set up for me a right hander. He was left handed and I am sure he would have preferred shooting his own gun.

I think folks need to look at the ideas of others with a more positive manner. After all, our goal is the same.

How does one politely point out you're wrong and I'm not? You guy's have the proverbial cart before the horse. NSSA needs to draw these newbs, and the 12Ga market is ready made. Don't try a bait and switch, our standard events for payload challenged/handicaped. Keep it simple, we don't have to prove anything so let's don't give them a reason to not participate. An old timer that Eric and I know once told me: "Competitive skeet shooting is fun - if we just let it be"

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Glenn/Eric/ke4yyd,Etc,

Sorry I posted. I didn't intend to whiz on your parade, and only presented the facts as I personally feel are just exactly how it will go.

I'll back out of here and get quiet. Leave the details to you'all. I'll support anything that has a chance of doing any good for Skeet. Hope I'm wrong on this current suggestion, but I sincerely doubt it.

DLM