It is currently Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:23 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Punch question
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:18 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:38 pm
Posts: 207
Last week my wife and I shot in the NE Regional at M&M. She is in E class and finshed 7th out of 27 shooters. On the Winscore site it says she earned 3 punches. The scores have been uploaded to the NSCA site. The targets shot are showing up but it still shows she has 0 punches. I know the back of our membership cards say at the National championship and US open they give more places punches. Is the regional under the same rules as the national and open or are the punches listed wrong on Winscore?



_________________
NSCA member since 2016
Caesar Guerini LH Summit Sporting
Beretta A300 Max5 camo
Beretta A400 Xcel sporting
Stoeger M2000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:39 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 7671
Location: Upstate SC
Good question.

I haven't figured this out myself yet!

And in tied for second recently at a pretty tough course and got NO punches!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:04 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 21007
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
VTHokiesDuckHunter wrote:
Good question.

I haven't figured this out myself yet!

And in tied for second recently at a pretty tough course and got NO punches!


How many were in the class? Probably less than 10. Rules for this are listed below.

# of Entries in class: Punches earned
HOA The shooterwith the highest score and all ties in an event,
where there is a minimum of ten (10)totalshooters,(with
less than 3 shooters in HOA shooters class) shall receive
one (1) punch no matter what class the shooter is in.
0–2 No punch
3–9 One (1) punch for high score and all ties
10-14 Two (2) punches for high score and all ties
One (1) punch for the second highest score and all ties.

15-29 Four (4) punches for high score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for second highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for third highest score and all ties.

30-44 Four (4) punches for high score and all ties.
Four (4) punches for second highest score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for third highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for fourth highest score and all ties.

45+ Four (4) punches to first, second and third highest scores
and all ties.
Three (3) punches for fourth highest score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for fifth highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for sixth highest score and all ties.

b. It is the shooter’s responsibility to determine these
punches and move up one class after reaching the following
number of punches:
AA Class to Master Class 20 punches
A Class to AA Class 14 punches
B Class to A Class 12 punches
C Class to B Class 8 punches
D Class to C Class 6 punches
E Class to D Class 4 punches
Note: Punches must be earned in Shooter's current class
in order for them to be used in moving up in class.
A person earning more than the necessary punches to
move up in class enters the new class with no punches.
c. In events of 100+ entries, it is the responsibility of shoot
management to notify all shooters of their move up in
class or punches received.

_________________
Let us endeavor so to live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:13 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:38 pm
Posts: 207
Curly-Nohair wrote:
VTHokiesDuckHunter wrote:
Good question.

I haven't figured this out myself yet!

And in tied for second recently at a pretty tough course and got NO punches!


How many were in the class? Probably less than 10. Rules for this are listed below.

# of Entries in class: Punches earned
HOA The shooterwith the highest score and all ties in an event,
where there is a minimum of ten (10)totalshooters,(with
less than 3 shooters in HOA shooters class) shall receive
one (1) punch no matter what class the shooter is in.
0–2 No punch
3–9 One (1) punch for high score and all ties
10-14 Two (2) punches for high score and all ties
One (1) punch for the second highest score and all ties.

15-29 Four (4) punches for high score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for second highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for third highest score and all ties.

30-44 Four (4) punches for high score and all ties.
Four (4) punches for second highest score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for third highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for fourth highest score and all ties.

45+ Four (4) punches to first, second and third highest scores
and all ties.
Three (3) punches for fourth highest score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for fifth highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for sixth highest score and all ties.

b. It is the shooter’s responsibility to determine these
punches and move up one class after reaching the following
number of punches:
AA Class to Master Class 20 punches
A Class to AA Class 14 punches
B Class to A Class 12 punches
C Class to B Class 8 punches
D Class to C Class 6 punches
E Class to D Class 4 punches
Note: Punches must be earned in Shooter's current class
in order for them to be used in moving up in class.
A person earning more than the necessary punches to
move up in class enters the new class with no punches.
c. In events of 100+ entries, it is the responsibility of shoot
management to notify all shooters of their move up in
class or punches received.

Any idea on my question?

_________________
NSCA member since 2016
Caesar Guerini LH Summit Sporting
Beretta A300 Max5 camo
Beretta A400 Xcel sporting
Stoeger M2000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:20 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 1438
My first guess is its wrong on Winscore. But if you give the NSCA a shout tomorrow, you'll hear it from the group that can give you a certain answer.

Either way, good shooting on her part.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 10:29 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 21007
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
Do what he said, give NSCA a call

_________________
Let us endeavor so to live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:38 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 am
Posts: 3022
Not sure how this is hard to figure out.

Look up the raw results in Winscore for the main event NE regional. 24 shooters in E class.

This applies:
15-29 shotoers in class
Four (4) punches for high score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for second highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for third highest score and all ties.

Looking at the punches awarded report in Winscore, there are 27 (?) in E class. Regardless of the discrepancy in number of shooters, the above schedule still applies.

Nobody in E class should get 3 punches for the main and nobody in E class in 7th place should get a punch.

IThe results on the Winscore punch summary for E class NE Regional main event are in error. There is no doubt about it.

In fact, it appears that the punch summary for the entire main event are jacked up......


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:27 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:38 pm
Posts: 207
[quote="Sobrepuesta"]Not sure how this is hard to figure out.

Look up the raw results in Winscore for the main event NE regional. 24 shooters in E class.

This applies:
15-29 shotoers in class
Four (4) punches for high score and all ties.
Two (2) punches for second highest score and all ties.
One (1) punch for third highest score and all ties.

Looking at the punches awarded report in Winscore, there are 27 (?) in E class. Regardless of the discrepancy in number of shooters, the above schedule still applies.

Nobody in E class should get 3 punches for the main and nobody in E class in 7th place should get a punch.

IThe results on the Winscore punch summary for E class NE Regional main event are in error. There is no doubt about it.

In fact, it appears that the punch summary for the entire main event are jacked up......[/quotel]
Man.........little nasty this morning. I can read and know how the system normally works. I was asking if the Regional was under same guidlines as the National and open. I didn't think it was but when i saw the punches I was confused. Sorry to take your time up on asking a question. Wait...this is a forum for questions and stuff isn't it? SMH......
Thanks all that repield that were helpful!

_________________
NSCA member since 2016
Caesar Guerini LH Summit Sporting
Beretta A300 Max5 camo
Beretta A400 Xcel sporting
Stoeger M2000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:33 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am
Posts: 4942
Location: Southwest Georgia, USA
Regionals are not under the same punch rules as the US Open and Nationals.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:00 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 am
Posts: 3022
Cooper4141 wrote:
I can read and know how the system normally works. I was asking if the Regional was under same guidlines as the National and open.
Regionals are not the same as the nationals and the USO. The rulebook is unambiguous about that. Which is why I said that Winscore is in error.

Whether the punches earned are entered manually or calculated by Winscore's software, I do not know.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:22 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 21007
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
Cooper4141 wrote:
Man.........little nasty this morning. I can read and know how the system normally works. I was asking if the Regional was under same guidlines as the National and open. I didn't think it was but when i saw the punches I was confused. Sorry to take your time up on asking a question. Wait...this is a forum for questions and stuff isn't it? SMH......
Thanks all that repield that were helpful!


How many events did your wife shoot in? Did she possibly punch in one other contest or more at that shoot? Were you looking at the punch summary or simple the main event?

Thes questions are asked to help you ascertain the reason for the discrepancy or if there is simply an error.

_________________
Let us endeavor so to live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:38 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:38 pm
Posts: 207
Curly-Nohair wrote:
Cooper4141 wrote:
Man.........little nasty this morning. I can read and know how the system normally works. I was asking if the Regional was under same guidlines as the National and open. I didn't think it was but when i saw the punches I was confused. Sorry to take your time up on asking a question. Wait...this is a forum for questions and stuff isn't it? SMH......
Thanks all that repield that were helpful!


How many events did your wife shoot in? Did she possibly punch in one other contest or more at that shoot? Were you looking at the punch summary or simple the main event?

Thes questions are asked to help you ascertain the reason for the discrepancy or if there is simply an error.


Main event only. It is on the punch report.

_________________
NSCA member since 2016
Caesar Guerini LH Summit Sporting
Beretta A300 Max5 camo
Beretta A400 Xcel sporting
Stoeger M2000


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:39 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 16824
Without seeing the scores, it is possible for someone who the match said finished 7th due to tie breakers, but whose actual score was the same as someone in 2nd place. For example, Top E shooter shoots a 75 and the next 6 all shoot the same score, for example, of 70. All are entitled to the punches awarded to the 2nd place person as far as NSCA is concerned. Since there would be prizes/cash/trophies though for maybe 1-3 or 1-5., most shoots use some form of tie breaker - one of the stations, maybe something else. That said, the odds of the above scenario actually happening are slim, but it is still a possibility.

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:44 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 am
Posts: 3022
This punch summary (NE Regional main event) matches the punch schedule for the National Championship and US Open main events, is incorrect and does not follow NSCA rules: http://winscoreonline.com/view_results_ ... ass_id=All

This punch summary (NE Regional National FITASC Champ) is correct: http://winscoreonline.com/view_results_ ... ass_id=All

This punch summary (NE Regional Masters Cup) is correct: http://winscoreonline.com/view_results_ ... ass_id=All

This one (NE Regional 5 Stand) also appears to be right: http://winscoreonline.com/view_results_ ... ass_id=All

NSCA rule III-A-2-a-1 applies

ETA: looks like the main event punch awards have been corrected on Winscore now.


Last edited by Sobrepuesta on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:17 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 382
I have a call in to the NSCA, along with another shooter I know that the latest data including the NE regional is incorrect. Both of us should be showing moving up a class but our punch count isn't posted right nor what I assume will be a move up in class. Trying to get it corrected before NJ State at Cedar Creek to be placed in proper class.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:33 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 382
Just got a call back from the NSCA and got a good explanation of where I stand. I was wrong on what a carry over punch is.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:33 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:08 pm
Posts: 3
Go to the rule book and call Headquarters. The punch system changes from time to time but the Nationals and US Open are the only shoots that are different from a standard shoot. Just a tip but pay your $20 and take the referees test and get your certification. That helps you with issues such as this and it will also help you should a conflict arise during a shoot and the shoot opens to be a pull your own or you have inexperienced referees. I've been around the block with this stuff for a while and was a National Delegate for 3 Terms and have been in the middle of this stuff quite a bit. Take care and shoot well.
Mark Chronister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:34 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:34 pm
Posts: 512
Does she get punches for finishing as a top 3 women shooter? Do concurrents earn punches? I have no clue.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:53 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:48 pm
Posts: 286
Location: Wisconsin
Punches are awarded for class placement only. Concurrent placement does not have any punches, only points.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Punch question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:30 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:34 pm
Posts: 512
Gotcha, as a middle-aged male I've never had a chance at a concurrent classification.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 686 Shooter, 8fan, ada33, autogun, B.L.E., bhasser, big45guy, Billcunn, Bing [Bot], Brad F, Brkemall, CelebrateWood, crowhunter1, dragginbutt, Ezra Smack, flash 5, floridaford, fungunner, Gadwall, gaeta004, gjw, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], grizquad, Gumslough, Heat_PCB, houmike, Hunterfisher808, Jason Johnson, jbmich, jeffro22, John H, jpwheels, Keperkey, kydovehunter, la angler, Law57, M12Gunboy, Majestic-12 [Bot], MarcL22, MarkA400, Maser, MAX & TOBY, McFarmer, mil_dot, MTmag, murfer, mw30cal, Nasty-G, Nate_Evans, Neanderthal, NimrodRx, noshot, NTxAg, oldthompson, pintail_drake2004, prostockta, RemPremier, rickeroo, Road Man, RockyMountainHi, Rudolph31, sabcon, se2884, Skeet_Man, skeetsit, Stuck-N-Kali, SuperXOne, the Rev, UncleJesse, viking, winmod21, woodcock1


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice