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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 7999
Location: Upstate SC
Stumper

For a guy with only 133 posts, that was a good one...... :)




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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:49 pm
Posts: 1915
Location: Hooper, UT
wasthestumper wrote:
That was a really long winded post in an already too-long thread, but the moral of the story is that there is always another side, and it's probably a side you don't understand. Unless you make an effort to get involved, plan on being surprised from time to time.
I've been a member of my club since 1977 and state association since 1985. I've held every board position available multiple times in both - I'm involved. I agree that most folks don't care and choose to not get involved. BUT - when questions are asked, truthful answers should be given. As I see it, that isn't happening in this tax issue with NSSA. Why is that?

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Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 75 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.”
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:51 am 
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Posts: 1915
Location: Hooper, UT
hawkeye55 wrote:
The NSSA does not lack transparency for not telling me it (the sun) would come up.
But they do on the tax issue. {hs#

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Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 75 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.”
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:54 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:17 pm
Posts: 369
Location: South Alabama
Stumper, I hear you but disagree. I resigned as the secretary of one club when the leadership did something I considered unethical and did not want it in the minutes. Up to that time, I had recorded every action in minutes. That documentation prevented several problems as time passed and provided a true record for future board members.

We were later forced to accept part-time paid accountant and manager positions. That manager had been the president or vice president when I was the secretary. He was fired and tarnished his reputation over something that would have been ok if it had been approved in public/writing and documented in board minutes.

With regard to government agencies. Two clubs I've belonged to had big problems with their FFL paperwork. BATF worked with both clubs to identify the exact issues and accepted a long-term plan for corrective action.

I've been volunteering since the early 80s and agree there are too few volunteers. I have problems problems with leaders/volunteers who become takers ("the club owes me...") and talk down members. I've always made it a policy to never accept anything beyond what is available to any club member (hopefully documented) and to never complain about members who pay their money and just enjoy the benefits of membership.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:36 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Add 1500 to the number above!
Not sure where we disagree. We keep everything above board and make information available to members. We don't withhold anything, but we do make difficult decisions - sometimes under duress - and sometimes those decisions piss some people off. Again - anyone is free to show up and witness the process. Just because it's controversial or unpopular doesn't mean it's unethical, or that it was the wrong thing to do. At some point it comes down to trust. No one on our board gets paid anything, and there are no privileges to partake in. No one get's talked down - we encourage conversation but typically get too few willing to converse. That being said, I'm not going to have a lot of patience for the guy that shows up once a year, complains about everything, yet nobody has seen him anywhere on the property or who he is. We cancle about a quarter of a monthly meetings because we don't have a quorum - apparently some people can't be bothered 11 months out of the year. I don't feel like anyone owes "that guy" any explanations.

In my experience, the BATF is one of the more reasonable agencies to deal with. The EPA and DEP are the ones we worry about. The fewer of those guys we have running around the property, the better.

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IMO, shooting registered targets at the club is like eating a "registered cheeseburger". It's the same cheeseburger, but you pay more for it and everyone knows you ate it...


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 30
I wonder if anyone at the BoD meeting held during the Mini-World shoot will pose the tax question from this thread ? Any takers ?

Spader


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:02 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 23
Just a last friendly reminder to the BOD and to the wonderful NSSA management team (Steve Scales, in particular, since he writes the checks). The last day in January, 2018 is the final date to finish submitting the NSSA payment of ONE HUNDRED and NINETY SEVEN THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED EIGHTY-THREE DOLLARS and FORTY-TWO CENTS that you so graciously decided to pay in Bexar County property taxes since you deliberately choose to ignore all the various legal avenues that would have allowed the NSSA to significantly reduce this ridiculous cost. No sense in missing that deadline and incurring additional substantial penalties and interest. Good luck with your current style of financial management. The best of luck to you guys.... you're going to need it. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3682
Spader wrote:
I wonder if anyone at the BoD meeting held during the Mini-World shoot will pose the tax question from this thread ? Any takers ?

Spader


Such action was not noted noted in the minutes of that meeting.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:42 am
Posts: 591
Again with this adamant suggestion that the Association hire an environmental firm to perform an assessment study; seeking a finding of the club’s property, that after years of use it has become severely polluted with toxic lead. Polluted to such a degree that it is now worth a fraction of what it once was. Then conclude by go on record with these findings to the local and state jurisdictions. Because by doing so, the club would be in a position to potentially reduce property taxes? How wonderful!

Of course once that scenario is actually played out, the downside is that the club is officially on the record, FOREVER, as that does not go away. Further, a precedence is set, certainly within the State of Texas but also across the entire country as this is our national headquarters. The precedence that shotgun clubs in general pollute the environment with toxic lead. What about the fact that clubs are continually in front of jurisdictional oversite Boards; Planning Commissions, Boards of County Commissioners and City Councils? Clubs are recurrently seeking approvals of expiring special use permits and business licenses that are necessary to operate! The outcome of such are determined in public hearings, often against opposition from neighbors and/or anti-gun organizations.

So what happens when the neighbors have their attorney stand in front of the Planning Commission at a reoccurring special use permit hearing and argue: “By their own admission, they are polluting the environment! How do we know that this pollution is contained to their land and not the neighbors? We have children that play in the area, we drink the water, we breath the air. You as the Planning Commission need to vote to deny any further firearm activity at that site. Their own expert has assessed that they have severely polluted the area, our neighborhood, with toxic lead. There is no justification in the world that the applicant can produce to outweigh this toxic pollution to our neighborhood. That gun club needs to cease activities immediately and go away!” Once the national association is on record supporting this assertion, not necessarily because it’s true but because we seek tax relief, do you think that would be an easy objection to overcome?

My opinion is that the Association is doing exactly as it should. We should continue to be good stewards of the land, continue to be environmentally conscientious and continue to do our part to assure this remains. When appropriate, we should remove the lead via occasional surface clearing under standard permits as necessary, sell the reclaimed shot, revegetate the disturbed soils, and pay our property tax as appropriate just as we always have.




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