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 Post subject: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:44 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 23
Hello folks, my first time to post. Normally I continue would bite my lip but just can't any longer. I was reading the minutes of the last Exec Board meeting and noted that Pres. John Haugh stated that the major capital improvements for the last 3 years have been "hamstrung' by county politics. I live in Bexar County where the NSSA/NSCA headquarters are located and I have not heard a single peep about why this is occurring. Could someone please explain what is going on?




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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:29 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:03 pm
Posts: 30
OK, I'll bite.

How is Bexar County politics "ham stringing" anything related to capital improvements ?

Is the county charging too much in the way of taxes ? How does the tax rate for the NSC compare to other shooting places in the county ?

Spader


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:37 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Bexar county doesn't seem to be stopping the Bexar County Community Range (Trainer Hale) from rebuilding one of their trap houses.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:36 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 am
Posts: 3017
Spader wrote:
OK, I'll bite.

How is Bexar County politics "ham stringing" anything related to capital improvements ?

Spader
Maybe some of these improvements require building or other sort of permit and the county is denying it/delaying it.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:00 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 23
Spader, Thanks for your reply and the interesting comments about the taxes being of concern. I will do some checking on the tax issue you raised, especially the tax rate comparison between National and other ranges in the county. I understand that there is internet access to county property tax records here so I will look and report back.

Sobrepuesta, Thanks for your reply also. Bexar COunty is maybe a totally screwed up place for most things controlled by gov. but I seriously doubt that they have prevented or failed to permit any improvements for THREE YEARS. That makes no sense. They don't seem to be blocking Bexar Community Shooting range improvements (see B.L.E. comment above). That time element is what makes the Haugh comment, on EC board minutes record, all the more puzzling. I will do some checking with some of our local construction folks that may shed light on the "hamstring" effect that was claimed implemented by the local politicians (politics). I know that our politics is probably as corrupted as most so there is a high probablity that some behind the scenes crap is occurring on one side or another. Right now your guess is as good as mine.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:25 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 18462
You could always attend a County Commission meeting and ask them for an answer on the record.

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:04 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 am
Posts: 3017
oneounceload wrote:
You could always attend a County Commission meeting and ask them for an answer on the record.

He could. At best he'll get a non-answer. At worst, they'll accuse him of being disruptive and have him arrested.

The best way to deal with politicos is to find dirt on them.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:19 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 23
Subrepuesta, LOL Unfortunately I think you hit that nail smack on the head. At very least they would question my right to question their actions considering the "correct" folks with "standing" should be there doing it instead of me. BTW - It is much better to pile the dirt on politicos than to just find it on them.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:25 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Are those major capital improvements something that the county was going to do? Bexar county is broke as I understand it being saddled with underfunded fireman and police pensions and is trying to negotiate out of them.
Or does it have something to do with that huge mega-church that's across the road from the National Shooting Complex.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:48 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 23
B.L.E My understanding is that they are projects that the NSSA/NSCA EC board has been trying to do for the past three years but they are getting stymied by, as of yet undefined, Bexar County "politics". See the below link (copy and paste) of the comment by J. Haugh, EC board president, on page 2

http://mynssa.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/ ... 0.3-GB.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:17 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
Posts: 2162
Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
Flame Thrower wrote:
B.L.E My understanding is that they are projects that the NSSA/NSCA EC board has been trying to do for the past three years but they are getting stymied by, as of yet undefined, Bexar County "politics". See the below link (copy and paste) of the comment by J. Haugh, EC board president, on page 2

http://mynssa.nssa-nsca.org/wp-content/ ... 0.3-GB.pdf


So I guess either those improvements are something they need a permit for or the county actually owns the land that the National Shooting Complex occupies. Austin's Capital City Trap, Skeet, and Sporting Clays is in that position. The club is actually on city park land along with the model airplane club next door.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:23 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:02 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: Central Pennsylvania and Southwest Florida
Maybe it is time to move to a more central location.

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Jim

(Warning: To those that read my posts.)
I don't shoot registered targets so what could I possibly know or have to offer?


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:39 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:32 am
Posts: 3017
I'm pretty sure NSSA-NSCA owns its land. I could be wrong tho.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:37 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3959
Sobrepuesta wrote:
I'm pretty sure NSSA-NSCA owns its land.


You're half right.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:50 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:02 pm
Posts: 5412
Location: Central Pennsylvania and Southwest Florida
With all the growth around the club I doubt they would have a problem selling it and moving.

_________________
{hs#
Jim

(Warning: To those that read my posts.)
I don't shoot registered targets so what could I possibly know or have to offer?


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 8132
Location: Upstate SC
Maybe some wealthy/influential Liberal Californians or Yankees have moved in and are pressuring the council. I've seen that happen in NC.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:13 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 18462
Jim Miller wrote:
With all the growth around the club I doubt they would have a problem selling it and moving.


Maybe after the lead mitigation and clean-up......

Follow the money....if there's a developer who wants it, then there's probably a lined pocket or two.

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:18 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:52 am
Posts: 216
Location: Eastern Kentucky
In addition to lead remediation as of this year broken targets also require cleanup and disposal in approved location $$$$$$$. At least lead has value. The construction projects being held up are among others, sporting clays building at the east end of the middle skeet field row, entrance to the sporting clays courses, remodel of club house and addition to vendors row, if memory serves me. Latest I heard was a new fire sprinkler requirement and larger city water tap $$$$$. RV park expansion to meet need. New surveying / plating requirements, and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:08 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 23
Gentlemen, Many thanks for all the responses to date. This will be long post since I have discovered a bunch of info in the investigation I promised earlier to do of the Bexar County property tax records regarding NSSA/NSCA. In light of the earlier comments by "Spader" about how local Bexar ranges actually compared to one another on the tax rolls I called and got some real stunning info from a local shooting range operator, that have known for years, who actually had personally called theNSSA/NSCA Headquarters to address some very pertinent property tax issues currently ongoing in Bexar County that mutually concerned all of the Bexar County ranges. The response from HQ was quite strange to say the least. It was revealed by Steve Scales, finance director, that the NSSA/NSCA had contested numerous prior property tax appraisals (as well they should). That was the good news thta they were standing up to protest. The bad news was that in protesting the over valued appraisals (Standard Operating Procedure for the Bexar Appraisal District) Mr. Scales stated that the "hired guns" (assorted lawyers and property tax consultant firm) representing the NSSA/NSCA at protests, had only protested to keep land values equal to surrounding commercial properties. Really? The real revelation came when he stated that they did not protest to get appraisal value reductions under Texas Property Tax Code Section 23.14 Feel to to verify and look it up on the web. When I looked it up I was dumbfounded that our state politicians had actually written a very precise and valuable law benefitting smart range owners protesting appraisal value. I was shocked that the NSSA/NSCA was not using it. This Texas Code section requires a value reduction consideration by appraisers for any contamination issues, present or future, including giving consideration for cost of the end clean-up. The thrust of this is that whatever value the appraisal district assesses must then subtract forthe cost of clean-up. Think about that in the NSSA/NSCA context, they produce lead, a toxic substance under Federal Law called the RCRA. Lead produced "recreationally" in shooting sports is held under a non-toxic label called "recreational" until it is discarded or abandoned. that is great right up until the land is no longer used as a shooting range. Guess what Mr. Scales said, NSSA/NSCA does not bring up any/contest any lead issues with the appraisers because they were "advised" by the "hired guns" that it might affect the NSSA/NSCA land resale value. NO JOKING! He further stated that the NSSA/NSCA knows that they have lead, in massive quantities and that they have made some remediation efforts. He was most likely referring to having a company come in the process top soils behind skeet areas where machinery can used. He must think the sporting clays or the other assorted fields with shot falling on irregular or wooded areas would be ignored. Don't think feds or state or any new potential owner would be thrilled with that oversight. Scales most damning statement to the range owner, this one really struck a sour chord, was that NSSA/NSCA did indeed acknowledge that in a final contaminantion clean up that the costs would would far outstrip the eventual sale price of the land but that did not matter since the NSSA/NSCA never had any intention of moving the headquarters. That is not good news to a number of other folks posting on this site. Mr. Scales was told that local range operators/owners were trying to advise all concerned about the process for fighting to taxes pretty much zeroed on the property if the lead issue were presented at protest hearings. Mr. Scales stated that it did not matter what other ranges did, because the NSSA/NSCA property paid very little in property taxes because they claimed the Agricultural Exemption earned by "raising cattle".
I confirmed that they indeed used that particular exemption but it was only for some of the five parcels they owned. One agri exemption was on a parcel labeled as "vacant land" but I found in the records that the other 4 properties were coded and labeled as "shooting range" and only one of those had an agri exemption. I guess that no one outside of ranchers realize that grazing cattle eat virtually everything including hulls wads and likely some lead. Wonder how that ethic works when they sell the cattle for food, etc. WTF are these management guys thinking? Any moron, including me, can do a little research and find that they are deliberately wasting the organizations money paying taxes they DO NOT HAVE TO PAY!! The range operator relating these tidbits was understandably confused at the obvious stupidity, lack of care and contradictions outlined in Mr. Scales comments. He said that an attempt was made to contact M. Hampton, Jr. by email and phone but he never exhibited the courtesy of a response. He said that Mr. Scales became the "Spokesman" because he was the only one who ansered his phone. I suspect now he wishes he had not. Let me give you folks my research basics of the land tax records (I confirmed what the range operator had said). The NSSA/NSCA property tax records
show that 493.5315 acres as labled as Shooting Ranges, 555.0535 Total are on Tax rolls under their title, The NSSA/NSCA website amazingly claims that they have 671 acres. Where did the rest go? The current tax roll payment total that will be due for 2017 (even with the agri exemptions) will be $197,583.42..............I wonder what could be done with the capital improvements issue that started this whole thread if some or a large part of those monies were suddenly made available. Mr. Scales further counseled the range owner that he could take his issue to the EC board, except he would have to run for a director position or at least get invited by a board member to speak. He did inform Mr. Scales that his conversation with him had been invaluable because it confirmed that he had wasted his time and that as he had learned years ago that no one in any postion of authority at NSSA/NSCA really gave a damn about conducting good business. Guys, don't take my written word, check it out on your own and see if the real devils are not hiding behind the details. Just a word to the wise, I am now starting to look at financial statements to see the who, what and why of the above details.


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 Post subject: Re: NSSA/NSCA vs. Bexar County - Politics?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:15 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:31 pm
Posts: 23
Forgot to thanks KYSKEET for actually answering my originally posed question about the "hamstrung" capital improvement comment made by EC board Pres. J. Haugh. THANK YOU!




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