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 Post subject: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
Posts: 21
Bought this gun cheap because it fits perfect and is balanced well in my hands. I plan to just use it for grouse hunting but would really like to know more about it. Hopefully the pics load up. It says Marca Grulla on the bottom of action and Mo 205 behind the trigger guard. It also has the standing crane insignia.

Thank you in advance.




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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
Posts: 21
I see pictures didn't load guess i need some help with loading photos as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 1588
wiscowoody05 wrote:
Bought this gun cheap because it fits perfect and is balanced well in my hands. I plan to just use it for grouse hunting but would really like to know more about it. Hopefully the pics load up. It says Marca Grulla on the bottom of action and Mo 205 behind the trigger guard. It also has the standing crane insignia.

Thank you in advance.


It's pretty much what it looks like. Union Armera, model 205. I cannot make out the year proof code but purely from appearance I'd guess circa 1960 gun made for some retailer here in the USA.

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Kyrie
Moderator - Spanish_Shotgun_Forum on Yahoo Groups
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Spanish_Shotgun_Forum )


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:18 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
Posts: 21
Thanks for the reply i bought it because it comes up so nice, what would you say ballpark value of this gun?


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:14 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 8263
Location: Maryland
Dakin marked or some other retailer?


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:15 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
Posts: 21
I'm not sure I'll look at it a little closer this week. I have found that some of these really aren't worth much but this surprises me a little because there nice looking guns with great balance and mine locks up tight. Makes me wonder if the inside of the gun is put together with duct tape and barbed wire. If not i think for 300 dollars i got myself a nice little grouse gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:30 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 242
Wisco,

I think you are just fishing to get us to tell you that you got a good buy. OK, this is the perfect time to emphasize what we say over and over about letting the gun tell its own story.

Even if you did not know it was a Union Armera 205... just look at the engraving of that flower on the side of the action. It screams the time period that the gun was made. See how it has a delicate almost three dimensional character? Do you really think they went to the trouble to put that on a gun that had crap parts inside? There was no laser engraving back then. That flower is hand tapped. Kyrie told you everything you need to know when he said the probable date of manufacture was about 1960. In the fifties and sixties makers had pride in their workmanship and even entry level guns had few flaws. But this gun is above entry level. See the scalloped action and 50% scroll? I'll bet there is not a ripple in the rib, or a gap in the solder. I'll bet the action opens and closes without a sound and that the triggers are more than fair. Even if a gun like this grinds a little, ninety percent of the time all you have to do is degrease the action and oil to get a gun that will shoot you into the grave.
Hold this gun up beside one of today's $2000 boxlocks and tell me that you wonder if it was worth $300.


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
Posts: 21
thanks for the reply volley, i think I'm like most and really like that maybe once in awhile i didn't over pay for something and made a good purchase so in that respect guilty as charged. The only reason i asked was i know nothing of spanish built guns and reading some things online leads a guy to believe there were shotguns built cheaply but good looking to fill a gap in the market demanding cheap sxs at the time. I'll take your advice and let the gun tell the story hopefully be patterning it on wednesday thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:12 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 am
Posts: 242
I hope you enjoy the UA. Whatever it is now, it started out as a good gun. Your question about quality is not without merit. But we all have to accept a couple of realities.
Used is used. There is no promise of perfection. What is the risk relative to the price? There are some studies on here which point out internals on brand new, high dollar guns which have imperfect hardening. I can't explain that. I have a theory that some smiths left certain internal parts slightly under hardened so that wear would occur in a part that could be replaced. I also think most of the bitching about soft parts is done by people who would never shoot enough powder to wear out, even an inferior gun. I know I had a gun that would fit that category and I shot the hell out of it without anything breaking.

I didn't mean to imply that Spanish guns could always be judged by engraving, though I do think that some people have blinders on. When two guns from different periods have exactly the same pattern it is easy to see the difference in workmanship reflected in the art of their embellishment. But I think most double guns are better judged by the overall feel of the gun, primarily reflected in the shape of the locks and the drawing of the barrels.

I always recommend that a person simply go regularly to gun shops and pick up guns.
If you hold a 1930's era Ithaca patent gun, and then pick up a high grade Ithaca or Fox, you will immediately discern that there is something different about fit and feel which translates to swing. The same is true of Spanish guns. While you were asking if the UA was any good, you kept talking about how it FELT. The only thing we can ever truly expect from a good used double is a cleverness of feel.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:02 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:34 pm
Posts: 21
The gun definitely has a great feel and with b&p # 7 1/2 it threw some pretty awesome patterns so this will be the new grouse gun. I also started refinishing it with a new color and oil finish since I'll be keeping it. Here's a pic of the progress I'm pretty excited of how great its turning out and how well it shoots.

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 Post subject: Re: Please help identify SXS that has Grulla mark
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:45 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:54 pm
Posts: 862
Location: Ontario, Canada
Wisco:

I have a "similar" Union Armera, a 12 ga. 28" Model 206E, a 1958 boxlock ejector gun, with a Serial Number about 2300 less than yours. (Compare your proof marks to those listed at the top of this thread to find year of manufacture) It has a very similar scalloped receiver, although it has side clips, and rose & scroll pattern engraving with a little more coverage ... maybe 70-75%. A Prince of Wales (round knob) grip and splinter fore end. I had the original chokes taken out to .007" and .015" and some cast off added to the stock. I replaced a red ventilated white line pad that was on it with a black Pachmayr Old English pad. I would hazard a guess that your UA is "one model" under mine. In it's day, a very good Spanish make ... and today, one of the remaining top manufacturer's.

I've been shooting it for over 10 years now. Got it out of an Estate Sale for $ 1000. I use it for grouse & woodcock and occasionally for game club pheasant & chukar. I shoot it a fair bit, maybe 3 or four flats of target shells a year at Skeet, 5-Stand and a little Sporting, but not as my primary target gun. Best guess, maybe upwards of 10,000 shells through it with absolutely "0" problems or malfunctions. I keep the target loads to 24 gram/1250 fps or 1 oz. loads/1200 fps ... and hunting loads to 1 oz. target loads for grouse & woodcock and 1-1/8 oz loads of 6's at 1255 fps for pheasant.

I value it at about double what I paid for it ... not because of any "market" or "Blue Book" value, but more because it is in very good - excellent condition, fits me to a "T" and I shoot it well. Beyond those factors, I haven't seen anything of similar quality in these parts for under $ 2500, either new or used, modern or old, to replace it with !

I wouldn't worry about "what it's worth" ... it's a quality SxS, ,,,if it fit's and you like it, ... just enjoy using it !




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