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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:51 pm 
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cugir321 wrote:
Here's another one.

This Union Armera had 3 of the worst chemical stains I've ever dealt with....nothing would mask them. I even tried bleaching.



I don't have a picture of the barrels. They came out beautiful...nice dark blue...almost black. I had to file pits and such. "Blue wonder" works very nice.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/displayimage.php?pid=8105&fullsize=1



Cugir321, how do you file the pits? Are they in the bores or on the outside?

We guys on here love to see examples of each others work. Please post more pictures of your work. I'd really like to see how your filed barrels turn out.

One can never post too many pictures.

Goldhky



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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:52 pm 
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I don't have a before and after so it's hard to see....it just looks like a nice barrel. This is not a great picture. My light is terrible in the house at night. It makes everything look brown. Notice the barrels towards the bottom of the picture. There are light pits....these were moderate ones. I didn't remove them completely. You really can't notice them unless you look very closely when you're holding the gun. The picture brings them out better then the human eye.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/displayimage.php?pid=8109&fullsize=1

i like blue wonder to blue a double barrel. Be sure to use break free to stop the bluing action....it will be brown if you don't...rem oil doesn't stop it!

I use a small file set I got from harbor freight. It has about 10 files. I wouldn't get rid of the pits if they are deep but you can lessen their look. Just run a fine file across the pits until they are just about gone. I'm not telling you what to do with moderate to deep pits....only minor pits. I have done moderate pits. You have to be the judge safety wise.

Now use one of the dremel puff wheels. They are about 300 grit....this will get most of the pit out

Once you have most of the pit gone then get a piece of wood and drill a hole through it with a paddle bit. Cut the wood in half down the middle of the hole so wood contours to the barrel shape. Super glue a piece of wet sand paper (500 to 800 grit) into the c shaped wood. Run it over the barrel until the pit is gone. This follows the curve of the barrel to keep it round. Now use a green scrubby....

You can now use a felt wheel and compound....this will give you a high gloss finish.

If there's no pits then I strip the barrels with blue wonder stripper, then use the dremel puff, green scrubby and compound. Then blue it. The slicker the metal the prettier the blue.

I've had a few that ended up with minor flat spots but it looks a lot nicer then the pits. Your eye is not drawn to a minor flat spot like a pit.

You can knock out dings inside the bore with a 12mm socket for 12 ga. Put tape on half the 12mm socket so it fairly tight in the barrel. Greese the inside of the bore. Place the socket in the barrel so the rounded edge of the socket is metal to metal against the ding. The taped side is against the other side of the barrel. Slowly drive it thru. Don't drive it through the choke. Drive it back the other way. Add more masking tape if it get loose before the ding is gone. You can use a brass hammer and tap the outside of the barrel when the socket is flush against the ding. This can round out the flat spot on the outside of the barrel....Go easy. I've taken out bad dings in 5 minutes with this method.

I'm told (just last week) if you have access to a mill you can use a 3/4 inch rod and mill it down to .7285 (for 12 ga) - Then put a little slope on one side of the slug looking thing. (only make the slope run about half way down the slug) Greese the bore and start the slope side up against the ding....drive it thru. Stay away from the choke unless you want to make it cylinder. I'd buy one if someone would make 'em....I can add the slope with a dremel on one side of the slug.

Steel wool and oil works good for minor pits in the bore....After using the steel wool....put compound on a patch and wrap it around a brass brush....chuck a cleaning rod into a cordless drill and let it rid for a bit....this will shine it. Use shining compound...you don't need to remove metal.

You can use a brake hone from harbor freight for minor pits....be careful not to take out too much metal. I know guys who have done it....I haven't. Gunsmiths do it for people who shot steel down a lead only bore. I'm told they use brake fluid as a lubricate. The stones of the hone are on springs...I'm told they are about 30.00.

I say it again....this is for minor pits....talk to your gunsmith for moderate to deep ones. Have him measure the barrel.


Goldhky wrote:
cugir321 wrote:
Here's another one.

This Union Armera had 3 of the worst chemical stains I've ever dealt with....nothing would mask them. I even tried bleaching.




http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/displayimage.php?pid=8105&fullsize=1



Cugir321, how do you file the pits? Are they in the bores or on the outside?

We guys on here love to see examples of each others work. Please post more pictures of your work. I'd really like to see how your filed barrels turn out.

One can never post too many pictures.

Goldhky


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:37 am 
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Union Armera 3:
Image

Silver in screw slot:
Image

Pit repair:
Image

Talk about a wealth of info here! I was going to ask the same question about before/after pics, but goldhky beat me to it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Quote:
When close to the but or wrist areas, I sand sand away and not towards the ends. By doing so, prevents rounding the edges.


You can avoid rounding the edges near the grip cap and butt plate by block sanding the stock with the cap and the plate screwed in place. That assures no rounded edges and an exact fit for the cap and plate. One of the ways Win Model 42 guys check the alleged originality of Mod 42 stocks is to examine the sanding marks on the cap and plate, because the stocks were fitted and finished at the factory with those accoutrements in place.

When you are peening the slots on buggered screws, an easy way to support the work and protect the threads is to run the screw into a pilot hole in a block of hardwood with a small countersink for the screw head, then clamp the hardwood block to the bench top. You can strengthen and harden the wood around the screw head with a little thin cyanoacrylate glue (crazy glue) or with thinned epoxy; let it cure before you run the screw into the hole. The thinned cyanoacrylate can also be used to reinforce punky screw holes in the gun stock and to carefully repair small cracks and splits in the head of the stock. Also works if you find oil soaked wood at the head of the stock, but you have to get all the oil out first (acetone bath). Don't get the glue on surfaces that show. Various viscosities are available at hobby stores, especially those catering to model train buffs.

My current project is off to the gunsmith because when I opened it, it needed to have the integral hammers/firing pins welded and refitted, and also needed the trigger guard threads welded and recut in the bottom plate. The smith also found that the pin that carries the sears was undersized and out of round so he's making a new one. Sometimes you just gotta know when to get a professional involved.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Ducky's Dad wrote:
...Sometimes you just gotta know when to get a professional involved.

Wise words.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:42 pm 
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Changing the subject just a bit... What does everyone on here use as an applicator for your oil stock finishing?? I've thought about lambswool to avoid the pieces of lint in my finishes but thought I'd ask everyone on here first...

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:50 pm 
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grover05 wrote:
Changing the subject just a bit... What does everyone on here use as an applicator for your oil stock finishing?? I've thought about lambswool to avoid the pieces of lint in my finishes but thought I'd ask everyone on here first...


My fingers. I just massage it in well. Then clean my fingers. Cheap, easy, and does the job. :lol:

Goldhky

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Thin birdseye cloth. We used it for cloth diapers and it has since been repurposed. It is 100% cotton and doesn't leave a lot of lint. If there was one or two, it always got knocked off when I hit the finish with 0000 steel wool. It's a bit unorthodox, but I was happy with it.

I use it in a modified "French Polish" style. This is a way of applying shellac in thin layers, but I found it to work fine for oil as well. Get a small square (about 4x4) of cloth and some scrap cotton cloth. Wad the scrap into a ball that the square can be tightly wrapped around. Securely tie up the square so you now have your "polishing" ball - less than 2" in diameter. I actually preferred to cut my TruOil with turpentine (50:50) so it would remain workable for a longer period of time. Then I lightly dabbed the ball in the oil/turpentine and rubbed it on, working in circles. When finished I put a splash of turpentine in an old babyfood jar and sealed the polishing ball in it. That way it didn't dry out between uses (as long as you don't have to store it for a long time). When done I just threw it away (after letting the solvent evaporate fully!)

MD

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:33 pm 
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I like fingers with GB linspeed. It washes off your hand easily too.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:03 pm 
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I am trying to refinish a stock that I've had for a while. I have stripped it, soaked it in Acetone 3 times for 24 hours each, and steamed the dents as best as I could. There are some areas that appear darker than the rest. These areas are splotches all over. They are very dark compared to the normal wood color. I haven't sanded much at this point - just to remove the wood hairs. Parts of the checkering are very dark as well.

I would like for you refinishing guys to look at the attached photos and give me your thoughts on what I can do to get rid of these dark patches. Thanks,

Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Maybe try some whiting on the dark areas.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1133/Product/OLD-FASHIONED-WHITING

Whiting is a less harsh process that does the same thing acetone does. Might not work since you said the acetone hasn't removed it.

My second advice would be to experiment with some different darker stains in the areas of the headstock where they're hidden behind the lock plates and can't be seen... Find one that hides the dark splotches and use it, it looked like you had a few spots on the wood where they're hidden by hardwear, under the trigger guard tang might be a good spot too. I'd be willing to bet the spots will sand out but the areas with wood to metal seams you'll want to do very light and minimal sanding, hopefully the whiting gets it out or a stain will hide it for you.

Hard to tell exactly what the spots are, most likely just excessive oil and or water damage. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:05 am 
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I had exactly the same problem with my gun, but I don't have any great answers.

Sanding will remove it, along with needed wood. Many of those places are at wood-metal junctions and you don't want the metal to be proud.

You can try whiting, but if the acetone soak didn't do it, I don't believe the whiting will either.

The best option is as grover mentioned above: stain. But it will only make it less noticeable, not hide it entirely.

Sorry not to have a great answer for this. It is a great question, however, and I'm interested to see other input from those with more experience. Did you also try over in the refinishing forum?

MD

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:54 am 
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Wow, I couldn't have stumbled across this thread at a better time. I am getting close to finishing the stock fitting/forming (as in fitting to barrel and receiver and forming from roughed out blanks) phase of a build I am working on. It's a rifle rather than a shotgun - actually a "stutzen" or Mannlicher-style full length forend carbine in .454 Casull built on an H&R break action - so somewhat shotgun-like. *

I've never done any woodworking, let alone worked on stocks before, so this thread is a wealth of good information even if mine is a build from scratch rather than a refinish.

Here's where it stands so far. Lots more to do!

Image
Image

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=278344&p=2406268#p2406268









* Extremely tenuous SSD linkage: "Stutzen" or "clipped" comes from the Austrian, where these full length stock carbines originated. Austria AND Spain were both once ruled by the Habsburgs..... :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:24 am 
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RPRNY wrote:
* Extremely tenuous SSD linkage: "Stutzen" or "clipped" comes from the Austrian, where these full length stock carbines originated. Austria AND Spain were both once ruled by the Habsburgs..... :oops:

:lol: :lol: Like you really need an excuse for thread drift around here! :lol: :lol: Cool project!

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Thanks for the replies. I did use whiting before the acetone baths so using it some more will probably not work. Is this oil that went deeper into the pores?

I don't really want to use a dark stain to cover this. Wanted to stay with a redish type finish like Chorizo's.

I will post over in the refinishing thread - thanks


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:31 pm 
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You might try bleach or oxalic acid. Usually available from a good (i.e., professional) paint store, and used for removing dark stains from hardwood floors prior to refinishing. Be sure to neutralize before refinishing.

Another alternative is to use the whiting, as previously mentioned, but to also warm the stock gently in an oven to help drive the oils out of the wood. If you live in a hot climate, it won't be too long before you could just set the stock out in the sun with some whiting paste on it. Whiting and warmth are less aggressive than bleach/acid, so I'd try that first.


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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:47 am 
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Most of the problem areas aren't oil soaked, and that's why whiting and acetone didn't work.

What you are dealing with are areas where the finish was drawn deeper into the stock (esp. in the checkering), and little spots that were dented and the finished area is below the surrounding areas. Try working these areas specifically with stripper (use a toothbrush in the checkering), and be sure the stripper actually gets good contact with the old finish.

This is an issue that whiting, acetone, and stain won't fix. They are more likely to cause other problems. There are cases where we just cannot get all the old finish broken up and off. In those cases the only two solutions are sanding and living with it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:51 am 
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Another option comes to mind from a thread that appeared on SGW a while back where a real artist was doing artificial graining on plain looking stocks and turning them into beautifully figured stocks. I imagine that poorly done it would look hideous but the work displayed on that post was true artistry. He could likely incorporate your dark spots into the finished graining and you wouldn't even recognize your old stock.

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm 
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In researching grayed wood, I found many solutions referenced in deck refinishing. Gray wood is a result of wood decomposition from moisture and/or UV. What about using sodium percabonate (turns into hydrogen peroxide in water) as a non-chlorine bleach? They use it in restoring wood decks. My only concern would be if it removed the wood.

MD

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 Post subject: Re: The Big Refinishing Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Hi Guys,

Thanks so much for the above discussion on my 'spotted' stock. I went over to the local ACE and found this - Savogran® Wood Bleach

Mixed it in a gallon of hot water and soaked and brushed the stock. Seems to have worked very well which tells us that the areas near metal could have been iron rust reacting with the tannin. I checked the original photos with the finish still on and the darker spots had chipping in the finish - probably water damage.

Check out the photos. Looks like it is time to get a Kickeze and get onto the refinish job. Thanks for the ideas.

Image

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