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 Post subject: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 3928
Location: Neosho, MO
I've really enjoyed shooting my Zabala made BSA Classic 16 ga this year on birds, but have been lusting after a similarly configured sidelock 16 ga. I'm not looking for a "Best" gun, just a good, honest hunting sidelock 16 ga. I've come to the conclusion that they just aren't out there.

Image
This is the BSA Classic 16 ga with Briley chokes that I've been shooting real well this year.



I went to this site: http://www.ugartecheashotguns.com/ and determined that I could have a gun built to the POW stock, single trigger configuration I want. I sent an E-Mail to Ugartechea last week, but have not heard back from them about building such a gun. This morning I called Lion Country and talked to them and they said no problem and are sending me a custom order form. The only issue is they will not warranty the single trigger.

I've decided to go ahead and order the gun and have decided on the following configuration:
16 ga Model 257
Old coin finished receiver
28" barrels choked IC/Mod for upland game over a pointing dog
Plain rib (not hard over on this one)
Half pistol grip stock (POW)
Medium beavertail forend
Single trigger (non selective, same as my BSS and S&W Elte Gold)
My fitted dimensions of: LOP-14.25", DAC-1.5", DAH-2.25", Cast off- .375"
Spare firing pins and springs

Anyone see anything that you would disagree with? Of course I realize most of you would not order a gun configured like this, but other than that, any red flags?

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An elderly gentleman, his faithful dog, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:38 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:20 pm
Posts: 208
Location: Maryland
It looks to me like you know exactly what you want. I own two Uggie boxlocks and I think you will be pleased with your new gun. The non selective spanish single trigger has a better track record that the selective type. Since you want a single trigger you made a good choice going non selective.


Bryan


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:39 am
Posts: 1388
Location: So Cal
Don't know if you have a choice, but you should try to specify the butt treatment, i.e., checkered, plate, pad (and type), etc. Don't want any surprises. You should also specify the choke constrictions in thousandths or metric equivalent, if they will let you. Uggies tend to be choked tighter than you would think for IC/Mod. You may want them a bit more open than their "standard," but you can always open them a bit later.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:15 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 73
Location: British Columbia, Canada
RM,

Just to make you aware, the model 257 gun has coil spring locks, not v springs. From what my Ugartechea dealer told me, all the low to mid range sidelock grades do, I'm not sure about the model 2000 or the best grades. You might ask them if v spring locks are an option if you prefer them. In the book, Spanish Best, Terry Wieland said he purchased his best grade model 1030 with the coil spring locks, Ugartechea seems to believe that they are stronger locks than the v spring, pgs. 270, 271.

I ordered my model 257 last April 2011, and got it just before Christmas, beautiful gun. I posted pictures of it on the Spanish gun photos thread http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=126&t=134224&start=320, if you want a closer look at my posted pictures, just put your pointer over the picture, then right click your mouse, and select view image, or if that doesn't work, go up to your browser, find the View tab, scroll down, and pick the Zoom in button, then you should be able to enlarge them up abit.

Tim


Last edited by tcart139 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:16 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 am
Posts: 2038
Location: St Anthony, North Dakota
Hi Rm, as Bryan said, looks like you want a gun with the features you stated. Good for you, after all it's your gun, not ours. The specs that you stated are pretty close to what I'd order. But, for me, and I'm just saying what I'd like, I'd go with double triggers. The advantage of a good SxS with DT is the quick choice of chokes. With a ST your limited to firing that first shot all the time with the more open choke. Where I hunt (on the prairies) there are times when a bird will not hold point (and I hunt over a good GSP) and will flush a bit wild. That's were a DT comes in. You can just drop back and use your tighter choke. Using a ST, you have to fire that open bbl first and then get back on target to use the choke you want to use. By that time, it maybe to late.

Also, DT are much more reliable. Spanish ST do have a history of giving the owners problems. Sometimes, not firing either bbl, doubling or not setting the 2nd bbl, etc. Of course some folks with ST have never had a problem, with Spanish ST it's just the luck of the draw. And as Bryan said, a SNST is a better choice that a SST.

Other than that, I'd get the same gun your after.

Best of luck to you in finding your dream gun!!

All the best!

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:23 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:39 am
Posts: 1388
Location: So Cal
Some of the Brit reviews I have read on Uggie sidelocks have commented that the coil springs are not "traditional," but none have claimed that they don't work as well as, or better than, the v-springs. The birds don't care.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 3928
Location: Neosho, MO
On my phone conversation with LCS, I inquired about the differences between the various models of Ugartecheas, and was told that engraving and wood grade were it. The internals are identical. I don't know how to verify that info, but it does sound reasonable that they wouldn't build a different sidelock for every model. If I were doing it, I'd build one sidelock that worked well and that would be it. Most customers probably never look at the internals any way and if they did, they wouldn't know what they were seeing.

Tcart, That engraving looks better in your pictures than it does on the LCS or Ugartechea websites. Very pretty gun, do you ever take it into the rough stuff like shattercane after roosters?

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An elderly gentleman, his faithful dog, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:56 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 73
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Riflemeister wrote:
Tcart, That engraving looks better in your pictures than it does on the LCS or Ugartechea websites. Very pretty gun, do you ever take it into the rough stuff like shattercane after roosters?

RM,

Yeah, there aren't any real good close up pictures of the Ugartechea Model 257 on the internet.

I haven't been hunting with the 257 yet, but intend to use it as an upland field gun. I live in northern British Columbia, Canada, so our hunting season ended last October 31. No pheasants to hunt here, only ruffed grouse, blue grouse, spruce grouse, and mountain ptarmigan.

I purchased a stock guard from the Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing Company, so that is what I plan to put on the stock in-order to bash through the bushes, I think it should protect it a fair bit. :)

http://www.csmcspecials.com/Stock_Guard_p/e0175.htm

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:05 pm 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:31 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Lodi, CA
Tim,

Your gun looks great! Did you have the option to order that which case-colors?


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:03 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: peoples socialist republic
That 257 is a handsome gun. Like the style of engraving.

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over the hill and picking up speed.

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."..
founding father George Mason.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:20 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 73
Location: British Columbia, Canada
David Dabaco wrote:
Tim,

Your gun looks great! Did you have the option to order that which case-colors?

Hi David,

Yes, it's my understanding that you can get the Model 257 in case colors as well. The problem for me was that I didn't have one with case colors in hand to judge by, so can't comment on how good it looks; one could get lucky with nice case colors, or not :wink:. The old silver finish looks nice on the the Models 257, and 110 because of the deep relief engraving, not so good on the finer engraved shotguns like the Model 357, just too shiny in my opinion. I guess it just boils down to personal taste.

For me it came down to deciding between the Model 110, and 257, those were the only two that I really liked, but in the end, I liked the engraving better on the Model 257. Do you think that the Model 257 engraving has a more Spanish flavor? Or which Maker & Model do you think does? It seems to me that most of the engraving on the new Spanish guns still continue to follow the traditional English patterns. I guess likely because that is still their main market for sales. I always like something abit different though, that's just my personal taste.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:31 pm
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Location: Lodi, CA
Tim,

The reason I asked is that you gun reminds me of the engraving pattern on the Arrieta 570. As to what kind of engraving or what kind of maker represents "Spanish flavor," I really do not have a preference. It's a good question though.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 3928
Location: Neosho, MO
I've been talking with LCS ( Brian Parsons) about getting the Model 257 built and the issue of another barrel set has come up.

This past year of hunting with my Zabala built BSA Classic 16 ga with the Briley screw in chokes has convinced me that although the classic upland chokes of IC/Mod are the right combination for most bird hunting, some conditions call for tighter chokes. In Oregon I ended up switching to LtMod/IMod to deal with birds flushing way out there in warm conditions. On a late season pheasant hunt in the panhandle of OK, we were dealing with 1 1/2 year and older birds because of a failed hatch. I went with the same LtMod/IMod for those birds and switched to #5 GP loads and did real well.

My thought now is to get a second barrel set in Mod/ IMod to deal with those situations where the IC/Mod just isn't enough. The alternative is Briley screw in chokes and I'm not sure it would be the proper thing to do with this higher grade gun. The cost difference is about double the cost of Thinwalls for the second barrel, but if my widow sells the gun, it would add a lot more to the value than Briley Thinwalls. Any thoughts on this issue?

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An elderly gentleman, his faithful dog, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:31 pm
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Location: Lodi, CA
As to the difference to between thin walls and an extra set of barrels --it's really hard to speculate because the difference is so personal.

Some people see chokes on a traditional style SxS as non-traditional and therefore lowers the price of the gun. Others do not care about tradition and see the thin walls as something that adds value to the gun. Overall, very subjective and personal.

As to the value of the second set of barrels, in general guns with a second set of barrels sell for more money but sometimes not enough on the used market to offset the original cost the barrels. Again, much depends on the buyer.

I know you probably already know most of this and were looking for a more definitive answer, but in my opinion I don't think there is one.

Again, all this is pure speculation on my part so take it for what it is worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:39 am
Posts: 1388
Location: So Cal
Quote:
The cost difference is about double the cost of Thinwalls for the second barrel,


I find it hard to believe that you can actually get a second set of barrels for only twice the cost of thinwalls. Can you post the costs you are being quoted?

I prefer a two-barrel set to thinwalls on a SxS, but only when I am able to get the barrels at an attractive price (as in the used market or by harvesting barrels from a second beater gun). Otherwise, I'd rather have a gun with tight fixed chokes and just tweak my patterns by varying the loads I use. If/when you sell the gun, it's hard to get back even most of the cost of a second barrel set. If the money is not an issue, order the second barrel set.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:59 am
Posts: 3928
Location: Neosho, MO
Yup, set of thinwalls with 2 skeet, IC, LtMod. Mod and IMod cost right at $600 with shipping both directions for my BSA Classic 16 ga. The price quoted on a second set of barrels was $1300+ a little. For a dumb hillbilly like me that's close to twice the cost. Believe.

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An elderly gentleman, his faithful dog, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:39 am
Posts: 1388
Location: So Cal
Well, that is close to 2x, but $600 for the thinwalls seems high to me. Must be Briley. I have a local ace barrel guy for barrel threading (on those rare occasions when I do it) and he fits TruLock chokes for less than Briley. If I had to pay $600 for thinwalls, I'd go for the second set of barrels, no brainer.

Does the $1300 include a second forend? If so, I think I'll order barrels for my Uggie 20.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Location: Neosho, MO
$600 is a lot for screw in chokes, but not nearly as expensive as scrapping a SXS that shoots the improperly installed choke skirt out and bulges the barrel. Briley is expensive, but it's done right. I'll never have any other screw in chokes done by anyone else. Shotguns are too expensive.

The barrels I'm thinking of having made are going to be identical externally and won't require a second forend. I would imagine that a second forend would up the price quite a bit. Everyone I've talked to says getting another set of barrels made for an existing gun is a logistical nightmare much worse than the initial importation of the gun.

_________________
An elderly gentleman, his faithful dog, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:18 am 
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Location: Flathead Valley, MT
Interesting situation with interesting questions RM. I know you know exactly what you want in setup, but it sounds like you are worried more about how much it will be worth after you shuffle off he ol' mortal coil - specifically how much your wife can get out of it. You are a very caring husband.

But i digress. To be honest, your personal tastes are a bit outside the classic upland gun norms with the BT forearm, DT, and choke tube setups ... But you know that already and don't care because you know exactly what works well for YOU. It's going to be harder to sell your guns than "traditional" guns, but there will be others like you. You have already made a big commitment to this gun, i think you need to honor the fact that this gun is for YOU, not the next guy who may shoot it. You have always gone with what works for you, so don't change now. Which do you think you will benefit the most from? Tubes or extra barrels? Do you always use the same two combinations, or do you mix it up sometimes? If it's only two combos, treat yourself and go extra barrels. If you want more flexibility, go tubes.

MD

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Wife: You just bought another shotgun, didn't you?


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 Post subject: Re: Ugartechea Model 257
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:59 am
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Location: Neosho, MO
MD,
Thanks for the kind and encouraging words. I finally got my price quote from LCS, and not only will I have a gun that will be harder to find a buyer for at some future date, but configuring the gun the way I want it and with a second set of barrels will result in a cost increase of 68% over the base DT, straight stock, splinter forend model.

I'm trying to avoid paralysis by analysis, but I've been unsuccessful the last couple of days in determining if the Ugartechea is suitable for a steady diet of Fiocci Golden Pheasant loads. There are numerous threads on here addressing that issue and proof versus working pressures, but I'm just not sure if the 257 is one of those light game guns and if Fiocci GP is one of those magnum loads. I've used the GP loads extensively on wild birds the last several years, this past year in my Zabala BSA Classic 16 ga using #6's for chukar, sage grouse and huns, and #5's for pheasant, particularly those late season birds in Oklahoma. If the gun I desire isn't suitable for the way I hunt, It would be a foolish waste of a lot of money. I don't want a safe queen that I can haul out to the preserve for pen raised quail with reduced loads, I want a real hunting gun, but one I can carry with a lot of pride. Any thoughts on this issue?

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An elderly gentleman, his faithful dog, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world.


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