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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:33 am 
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Location: Wilmington, DE
I am experiencing a similar problem, but I have the 650. I have installed the Powder Baffle over my universal charge bar, but my baffle is the zinc one from Multi-Scale (came with my charge bar in a package).

I guess I'll start with my bottle tension, but I believe I have the washer/grommets correct as per the enclosed instructions. Any ideas?



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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:24 pm 
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bggwind wrote:
I am experiencing a similar problem, but I have the 650. I have installed the Powder Baffle over my universal charge bar, but my baffle is the zinc one from Multi-Scale (came with my charge bar in a package).

I guess I'll start with my bottle tension, but I believe I have the washer/grommets correct as per the enclosed instructions. Any ideas?


Simple question fer yew, does the binding go away if you loosen the powder baffle at the charge bar? If the answer is yes, the stack up of washers and grommets is wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:51 pm 
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After checking and adjusting my 9000H I still had instances where my adjustable charge bar would hang to the left. I removed the return spring, tipped the bottles back and left the charge bar free to do what it would in its channel. Moving the bar by hand I heard/felt a hesitation in the travle. I could find no obvious cause for this issue. I have a 9" x 3" diamond lap I use for sharpening lathe bits and knives. I polished all 4 sides of the charge bar and observed the surfaces were not perfectly flat. After the lapping I installed the charge bar and after about 1200 rounds I have not experienced a single hangup. Larry


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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:46 am 
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Location: Wilmington, DE
Nope figured it out (stupid me). Didn't put 2 + 2 together...

I was getting rubbing from both a worn grommet plus a brass washer somehow slipped out of position and was travelling below the housing along the top of the bar in it's travel, providing additional friction and rubbing.

Also was getting a little powder in the shot drop. I polished the top of the bar with some abrasive (Med and Fine) pads, inserted the correct washers/grommet, and last night I was getting drops right on the money with zero hangups.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 9:51 pm
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I will add to the post since I bought a used 9000G a week ago and have loaded about 20 boxes of shells with it. I have had a lot of hangups with the STS hulls and very few with the old AAs. I may have messed up by inserting the brass and rubber washer with the zinc powder baffle and will remove them. I was thinking the locking arm was causing the problem but it may be several things. I have also had about 6 hulls that the shot did not drop that went on around and thru all the crimping stations. The most frustrating thing though is the almost double charges when the powder did not drop. This is usually detected when it hangs up with the primer too low when going from 2 to 3 and there is powder spilled all over the priming station, over a new primer. This post has helped a lot and I will work with the areas pointed out. I loaded for a couple of years with the Grabber with a lot less issues but the 9000 does seem a good bit faster. Thanks for the help to all.


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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:48 pm 
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gasph wrote:
loaded for a couple of years with the Grabber with a lot less issues but the 9000 does seem a good bit faster. Thanks for the help to all.


The only difference is the auto advance and the automatic ejection.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:04 pm 
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D L Marcum wrote:
Also, add 3 flat washers under the spring bracket on the end of the charge bar. You may need a longer bolt to do this.. Adding the washers will increase the spring tention, and help prevent the bar from sticking.

I respectfully disagree with this advice. The MEC supplied return spring is PLENTY strong enough to pull the bar back, even with moderate undue binding (such as a shot pellet rolled up onto the rubber keyhole insert on the shot side of the charge bar).

Modifying a MEC 9000 with a gob of washers to increase spring pressure only masks potential problems that actually need proper attention, - not to mention the added load it puts on the actuation arm/levers that weren't designed for that. If the MEC engineers felt that this spring needed to be bigger, - they would have made it bigger.


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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:11 pm 
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bggwind wrote:
I have installed the Powder Baffle over my universal charge bar, but my baffle is the zinc one from Multi-Scale (came with my charge bar in a package).

I guess I'll start with my bottle tension, but I believe I have the washer/grommets correct as per the enclosed instructions. Any ideas?


Yes, - you can not use the .060" thick, flat brass washer that comes with the MultiScale baffle. You need to use the MEC-supplied thin beveled brass washer and the black neopreme washer that came with your machine (that you can also get from MEC).


Here's how it works...

Consider this photo of a Multi-Scale metal powder baffle screwed into a MEC 9000 (with no washers):
Image

#1:
Notice that the spring-loaded black plastic nipple on the metal baffle is larger than the bore of the housing. The I.D. of this nipple is close to the ID of a MEC powder bottle (.625 on the baffle, .618 on the bottle).

The O.D. of the nipple/sleeve on the Multi-Scale baffle is .747, and the I.D. of the base bore hole is .727 which is a .020 difference.

The spring-loaded nipple/sleeve of the Multi-Scale metal baffle doesn't go thru the bore on a MEC 9000, - it simply provides a flat/square "seat" for the washers to mimic the flat surface on the threaded edge of a MEC powder bottle. In this configuration, the nipple is nearly bottomed out in it's travel with only about .005" of travel left, - not enough to take up the .050" that you'll read about in #3c below.

#2: (common sense instructions)
The bore hole thickness at the base of the threaded hole in the housing of my 9000 shown above is .140 inches.
a) The rubber washer is .130 inches thick.
b) the MEC supplied springy brass beveled washer is .010 inches.
c) .130 + .010 = .140 which is the thickness of the base bore hole in the housing.
d) The bevel in the MEC brass washer is the element that is providing uniform contact pressure.

#3: (Multi-Scale instructions):
a) The brass washer supplied by Multi-Scale is .060 inches (original ones were thinner).
b) .060 + .130 of the rubber washer = .190 inches.
c) .190 - .140 = .050 of an inch that the rubber washer gets compressed when you seat the metal baffle if you use the thick brass washer.
d) The charge bar will be completely clamped, and immobile in the housing if you tried to apply the Multi-Scale instructions on a MEC 9000.

#4: (possible stupid-user tricks)
a) If you were careless enough to do #3 above, - you already know what happens.
b) If you were careless enough to just use the Multi-Scale supplied thick brass washer (and no rubber washer), then you will get powder leakage (ball, flake, square, oval or otherwise).
c) If you were careless enough to use just use the black rubber washer an no brass washer (of any kind), well, then you still belong in category #4.


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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Location: Pointe Coupee Parish, South La.
Curly,
Thanks for the info as it looks like the remedy to my problem. I'm a bunch down as I just came from the hospital where my main shooting bud has a major staph infection. They are pumping him with massive antibiotics and the doctors said "IF" all goes well he could be out in approx. 2 weeks and that is if all goes well!! He is a great guy and deserves better than this. He will be in my prayers tonight!


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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 7:09 pm 
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fase3 wrote:
Curly,
Thanks for the info as it looks like the remedy to my problem. I'm a bunch down as I just came from the hospital where my main shooting bud has a major staph infection. They are pumping him with massive antibiotics and the doctors said "IF" all goes well he could be out in approx. 2 weeks and that is if all goes well!! He is a great guy and deserves better than this. He will be in my prayers tonight!


Your buddy needs all the prayer that can be said for him. I nearly lost a friend with the same stuff, but he is still with us. So there is hope. I suspect they are talking about MRSA.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:49 pm 
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Not trying to be crude but make sure you take a good shower with antibacterial soap when you get home from the hospital. MRSA is super dangerous and highly contagious. If you already knew that then ignore me

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Curly-Nohair wrote:
Dead Dog wrote:
Curley nohair and D L,
Thanks for the advice, recieved new tube, new drop tube, new clamp, new flat du-hickey that is between clamp and spring, new spacer. Loaded 200 rounds last night, everything fine. Still have the PC powder baffle coming. Looks like that flat du-hickey was bent up a little compared to the new one. I think I had a combination of things wrong. And I also adjusted the charge bar push thing so it pushes the charge bar all the way to the left under the powder bottle. Thanks guys for all your help, AGAIN!!
DD

Glad to help and also glad the problem is resolved.
That index spring is part # 615C. Add that to the spare spindex parts and the wad guides.

Curly, would the dimensions you gave also work for a MEC 650? Just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:10 pm 
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doodlebug wrote:
Curly-Nohair wrote:
Dead Dog wrote:
Curley nohair and D L,
Thanks for the advice, recieved new tube, new drop tube, new clamp, new flat du-hickey that is between clamp and spring, new spacer. Loaded 200 rounds last night, everything fine. Still have the PC powder baffle coming. Looks like that flat du-hickey was bent up a little compared to the new one. I think I had a combination of things wrong. And I also adjusted the charge bar push thing so it pushes the charge bar all the way to the left under the powder bottle. Thanks guys for all your help, AGAIN!!
DD

Glad to help and also glad the problem is resolved.
That index spring is part # 615C. Add that to the spare spindex parts and the wad guides.

Curly, would the dimensions you gave also work for a MEC 650? Just curious.


I have never worked on a 650, but if I did I would use those settings until they proved to be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:09 am 
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I want this post on my list of posts

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:06 pm 
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D L Marcum wrote:
Dead Dog,
This is a common happening on older machines. However there is a cure. Modify it to the way new machines are set up and the problem is fixed,

New machines have 2 clamps instead of one. This is accomplished by replacing the 1 inch spacer above the spring with a 1/2 inch spacer. (Either modify the old spacer or order a new shorter one). Then place an additional clamp above the original one, (The metal tab for the locking rod goes between the two clamps). This additional clamp will then prevent the clamp(s) from slipping on the rammer tube.

Parts needed are a spacer, a clamp, and a socket head screw. Problem solved.
DLM


I have a new 9000, (w/ one clamp) the powder tube slips no matter how tight the bolt is. Called MEC and they're sending me a kit to install a second clamp. Also ordered an extra tube /CNH suggestion.
I'm disappointed that I'd have this problem after loading only a few hundred shells.

thanks for your help DLM


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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:41 pm 
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tubex wrote:
D L Marcum wrote:
Dead Dog,
This is a common happening on older machines. However there is a cure. Modify it to the way new machines are set up and the problem is fixed,

New machines have 2 clamps instead of one. This is accomplished by replacing the 1 inch spacer above the spring with a 1/2 inch spacer. (Either modify the old spacer or order a new shorter one). Then place an additional clamp above the original one, (The metal tab for the locking rod goes between the two clamps). This additional clamp will then prevent the clamp(s) from slipping on the rammer tube.

Parts needed are a spacer, a clamp, and a socket head screw. Problem solved.
DLM


I have a new 9000, (w/ one clamp) the powder tube slips no matter how tight the bolt is. Called MEC and they're sending me a kit to install a second clamp. Also ordered an extra tube /CNH suggestion.
I'm disappointed that I'd have this problem after loading only a few hundred shells.

thanks for your help DLM


Sounds like you have oil between the clamp and the tube. That knocks the heck out of the friction of the clamp. Be sure that you get it oil free when putting in the double clamps.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:42 pm 
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Curley,
I spoke with you recently about my 762r not dropping powder or shot in the same hull every 100 or so shells. Here's where I am now, I checked the gap between the spring clamp and base of the powder tube and made a very small adjustment with remington hulls. No help, but I did notice the bar was not going all the way to the left and the charge bar was in between the powder and shot dropping and the lock was not locked in place. So I added 3 washers to the end of the bar and it seemed to help but it still did it. The arm that pushes the bar to drop the shot and powder looked like it was hanging down more than it should so I removed it and re installed it and then checked the screw in the charge bar. The screw in the charge bar is 1/4" from the left side when the press is in the down position. This also might explain why my press drops a little bit on the light side with the mec bushing chart. Do I need to adjust the bar travel and is it the nut on the end of the rod that hangs off the the arm that moves the bar. I can't remember how to post pictures in the text because I have picture to explain this better

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:11 pm 
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One last thing, my 7/8 oz bar is pretty old it's not red anymore it is pink. Is it possible that I'm getting a piece of shot in between the bar and the hole and it's causing my bar to hang up. I just watched it hang up and the lock was not locked I actually smacked the bar and it went back to the right. Maybe a new 7/8 oz bar with the white rubber insert would be a good investment. I'm currently loading #9 shot

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:32 pm 
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39DUCK wrote:
Curley,
I spoke with you recently about my 762r not dropping powder or shot in the same hull every 100 or so shells. Here's where I am now, I checked the gap between the spring clamp and base of the powder tube and made a very small adjustment with remington hulls. No help, but I did notice the bar was not going all the way to the left and the charge bar was in between the powder and shot dropping and the lock was not locked in place. So I added 3 washers to the end of the bar and it seemed to help but it still did it. The arm that pushes the bar to drop the shot and powder looked like it was hanging down more than it should so I removed it and re installed it and then checked the screw in the charge bar. The screw in the charge bar is 1/4" from the left side when the press is in the down position. This also might explain why my press drops a little bit on the light side with the mec bushing chart. Do I need to adjust the bar travel and is it the nut on the end of the rod that hangs off the the arm that moves the bar. I can't remember how to post pictures in the text because I have picture to explain this better



The arrow pointing to the right is pointing at the adjustment for the bar travel. I added an additional nut to lock the adjustment from gradually drifting down.

Image

I suggest that you get another bar with the rubber insert. They seem to work much better.

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 Post subject: Re: MEC 9000 charge bar hanging up!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:53 pm 
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At least IMHO the rubber insert in the bar makes a big difference. My used 9000 came with a used 1 1/8 bar that was old enough to not have the insert and I used it and WAS happy. Then I bought a new 1 ounce bar with the insert and tried it. The next time I was back at the shop I bought a 1 1/8 with the insert. The difference was obvious. About 10,000 rounds later I started to have some bar hangup problems and noticed the insert was getting kind of worn. Replaced it and problem solved.

I have a second clamp for the tube but have never installed it. I will if I need to but in the last two years have had two instances were it started to slip. I took things apart sprayed some carb cleaner on a rag and used this to wipe the tube and clamp ID. Even the most minute amount of oil will mess things up.

I am up to the 10-12K rounds a yer mode and do most of the loading in the winter. In the fall I overhaul and adjust the press. I clean the tube and clamp and adjust them and instal a new insert in the bar. Since I started this as a standard procedure- no problems.




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