Can someone direct me to, or send me recipes for loading 2 3/4" 12, 16, 20 gauge Rio hulls? I have data from BPI but it is pretty restricted and no 16 gauge. Also, I am aware of the "large primer" problem and can overcome that easily.
Handyhoot
Handyhoot,
I'd have absolutely no problem substituting Federal plastic hull data for any of the Eurotrash hulls. I might back off a 1/2 grain or so if I was loading clear over to the right end of the page simply because the Eurotrash hulls have a composition/plastic seperate base wad in them and the Federals are a wound paper base wad and the plastic base wad does a bit better job of sealing pressures. You'll get similar pressures with less powder in the Rio hulls vs the Federal hulls.
BP
I'd have absolutely no problem substituting Federal plastic hull data for any of the Eurotrash hulls. I might back off a 1/2 grain or so if I was loading clear over to the right end of the page simply because the Eurotrash hulls have a composition/plastic seperate base wad in them and the Federals are a wound paper base wad and the plastic base wad does a bit better job of sealing pressures. You'll get similar pressures with less powder in the Rio hulls vs the Federal hulls.
BP
With the exception of the Rio which has a unique situation with it's basewad as mentioned in this thread:Burnt Powder said:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=245474
The skirt on the base wad of a Rio is fairly tall and has a square edge, and the lip of the power cup on the actual shot wad will hang up on this lip if you don't have enough power bulk/height. I would not suggest using anything less than 20.0 grn's of Hodgdons Clays, or use another power that is bulkier than Clays. Do not use Clay "dot" as a substitute for Clays in this application because it's more dense, and less bulky than Hodgdon's Clays, and the so the amount of Clay dot that you'd actually need to keep the lip of the power cup up off of the base wad lip exceeds the max of what's listed in the charts.
20.0 grains of Hodgdon's Clays under a Claybuster CB-6100 holding 1-oz yields about 1,250 fps with a Fio 616 and will cycle a Benelli Inertia-driven action with authority.
21.5 grns of Green dot under a Claybuster CB-2118 for 1-1/8th oz is a formitable load which will also cycle a Benelli. Just don't try an substitute the CB-2118 for a Downrange Drf3, - the power cup on a Drf3 is undersized, and you will get off sounders, pookyness, and FTE in a Benelli.
If you are interested in trying a Gualandi GU-1225 wad (which is probably the best wad for the Rio's performance wise), let me know and I can send you some samples since I have 15,000 of them coming in this week (BPI is now handling the GU-1225's, and has them in stock).
The 20-gauge Rio hulls have a mostly flat base wad, so you don't have to worry about that. I've used Orange Dusters in them, but the Gualandi GU-2025's works the best. Here is some misc. chrono data that might give you an idea of the powder amounts, and velocities etc.:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=205722&p=1703593&hilit
Rep,
Your experience is different from mine with Rio hulls. All the ones I've fooled with were exactly like all the other Eurotrash hulls I'm familliar with. Indeed there is a very short and very thin lip on the Rios, I just went and looked at a few different ones I have down in the "hole". The Challenger and old style Cheddite/Estate hulls look identical for all intents and purposes. If there was any fit problems with a wad catching it would have to be using the longest lip wad I've ever seen and the most dense powder I've ever seen. What you have described is what I'm famalliar with on Seller & Beloit hulls, not the Rios I have, and I have several different kinds. A dark Blue with a short base, a lighter sort of a metalic blue, and then redish orange ones. Unless your/his Rio hulls are far, far different, I stand by first reccommendation.
BP
Your experience is different from mine with Rio hulls. All the ones I've fooled with were exactly like all the other Eurotrash hulls I'm familliar with. Indeed there is a very short and very thin lip on the Rios, I just went and looked at a few different ones I have down in the "hole". The Challenger and old style Cheddite/Estate hulls look identical for all intents and purposes. If there was any fit problems with a wad catching it would have to be using the longest lip wad I've ever seen and the most dense powder I've ever seen. What you have described is what I'm famalliar with on Seller & Beloit hulls, not the Rios I have, and I have several different kinds. A dark Blue with a short base, a lighter sort of a metalic blue, and then redish orange ones. Unless your/his Rio hulls are far, far different, I stand by first reccommendation.
BP
Interesting. Republican's experience mirrors mine with RIO hulls, identically. Thanks to fellow SGW member, 'Mokeman3' though, CB-6100 wads over 20.0 to 20.5 grains of Hodgdon Clays prevents the over powder cup of the wads from catching on the upper lip of the RIO's basewads. This is using RIO's blue-colored "Sporting" as well as "Target" and also the green-colored "Trap" hulls. I'm pushing 7/8oz instead of 1oz for a swell sporting load.
Republican, I just got my e-mail from Ballistic Products and confirming they have 20,000 of the Gualandi wads on their way to me, as well (10M qty of the -1225's and 10M qty of the -1227's).
I am anxious for them to arrive as all the other wads I've tried from BPI get cocked terribly on upper edge of the RIO basewads and those wads I tried include the Super Spark, the Rex24, and; Helarco VP05. Possibly the Lightnings, as well, I'd have to double check that when I return home. Link to BPI wads page: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Link-t ... tments/83/
A buddy swore he wasn't getting any cocked wads using the Super Sparks, Rex24's, and VP05's I gave him; however; no amount of light allowed for effective "candling" to see the interior, and; once we carefully Exacto-knife sliced thin sliver-windows out the sides of the shells he'd loaded, well, there was no denying the ridiculous degrees to which the wads were cocked.
All these (mine included) were with 20.0 to 20.5 grains H'don Clays. I also tried increasing my wad ram pressure to try and "center" the shot wad in the RIO hull basewads, on the theory that the wad ram provided a more consistent ("centering") seating effect than the final crimp which clearly "catches and cocks" the wads. No matter, even that resulted in "caught and cocked" wads and so, I have resigned myself to just using the CB-6100's and 20.0 - 20.5 H'don Clays for the past 4-5 months.
Hope success is better once I receive those long-awaited Gualandi's though!
Republican, I just got my e-mail from Ballistic Products and confirming they have 20,000 of the Gualandi wads on their way to me, as well (10M qty of the -1225's and 10M qty of the -1227's).
I am anxious for them to arrive as all the other wads I've tried from BPI get cocked terribly on upper edge of the RIO basewads and those wads I tried include the Super Spark, the Rex24, and; Helarco VP05. Possibly the Lightnings, as well, I'd have to double check that when I return home. Link to BPI wads page: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Link-t ... tments/83/
A buddy swore he wasn't getting any cocked wads using the Super Sparks, Rex24's, and VP05's I gave him; however; no amount of light allowed for effective "candling" to see the interior, and; once we carefully Exacto-knife sliced thin sliver-windows out the sides of the shells he'd loaded, well, there was no denying the ridiculous degrees to which the wads were cocked.
All these (mine included) were with 20.0 to 20.5 grains H'don Clays. I also tried increasing my wad ram pressure to try and "center" the shot wad in the RIO hull basewads, on the theory that the wad ram provided a more consistent ("centering") seating effect than the final crimp which clearly "catches and cocks" the wads. No matter, even that resulted in "caught and cocked" wads and so, I have resigned myself to just using the CB-6100's and 20.0 - 20.5 H'don Clays for the past 4-5 months.
Hope success is better once I receive those long-awaited Gualandi's though!
BP,
Rio used 3 different base wads. The most common in the Rio hulls that we see out here have the taller base wad which has a fairly thick edge on the top of the base wad that will catch on the lip of the powder cup of the wad depending which wad you use. My Chrono testing indicates a vast improvement in SD's when the base wad is not canted, and hung up on the lip of the base wad.
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
Left to right: CB-6100A, Bossi wad used in factory Rios, HelarcoUS VP-13:
![Image]()
Left to right: HelarcoUS VP-13, CB-6100A, Gaulandi GU-1225:
![Image]()
Left to right: CB-6100 in the Fioochi (orange), CB-6100 in the Rio blue:
![Image]()
Rio hull loaded with denser Clay dot powder causes power cup to get canted/cocked:
![Image]()
![Image]()
Rio hulls with 20.0 grains of Hodgdon's Clays gets the power cup off of the base wad:
![Image]()
![Image]()
Unlike the separate base wad in the AA HS's to where the the power cup of the wad was meant to slide down "into" the base wad, the top edge of the base wad in the Rio's is too thick, and too square for a properly designed Refeinhauser wad to slide down into.
Also notice that the Rio factory hull and it's Bossi A41 wad is manufactured with with the lip of the wad's powder cup just off of the lip of the base wad as well:
![Image]()
Another note (about Rio's in general), is that it appears that the hull tube used in the newer style Rio's (new style blue and brown box) are now unmarked. I'm not sure if this is a regular pattern, but that's what it is of late. I think someone else is now making the hulls (which, as junk hulls go, appear to be a tad bit higher quality than previous ones).
And as I've said before, the Claybuster CB-6100A, and the Claybuster CB-2118 (no Dr subs here!) do make for good loads in the Rio, but as thor_sen and myself have mentioned, the GU-1225 is the most ideal performing wad for this hull, and you can expect to find chrono figures that mimic these actual numbers:
Location: Renton Fish & Game
Date/Time: 2/6/2010 15:30 PST
Temperature: ~60 Deg F
Chrono: ProChrono Digital
Test Gun: 30-inch Browning XS Skeet
Choke: Carlson extended SKT/SKT
Barrel used: lower
String 2 (left box): Rio, 1-oz #7-1/2, GU 1225, 20.0 Clays, Fio 616
H: 1249
L: 1212
A: 1231
ES: 37
SD: 13
Rio used 3 different base wads. The most common in the Rio hulls that we see out here have the taller base wad which has a fairly thick edge on the top of the base wad that will catch on the lip of the powder cup of the wad depending which wad you use. My Chrono testing indicates a vast improvement in SD's when the base wad is not canted, and hung up on the lip of the base wad.
Left to right: CB-6100A, Bossi wad used in factory Rios, HelarcoUS VP-13:
Left to right: HelarcoUS VP-13, CB-6100A, Gaulandi GU-1225:
Left to right: CB-6100 in the Fioochi (orange), CB-6100 in the Rio blue:
Rio hull loaded with denser Clay dot powder causes power cup to get canted/cocked:
Rio hulls with 20.0 grains of Hodgdon's Clays gets the power cup off of the base wad:
Unlike the separate base wad in the AA HS's to where the the power cup of the wad was meant to slide down "into" the base wad, the top edge of the base wad in the Rio's is too thick, and too square for a properly designed Refeinhauser wad to slide down into.
Also notice that the Rio factory hull and it's Bossi A41 wad is manufactured with with the lip of the wad's powder cup just off of the lip of the base wad as well:
Another note (about Rio's in general), is that it appears that the hull tube used in the newer style Rio's (new style blue and brown box) are now unmarked. I'm not sure if this is a regular pattern, but that's what it is of late. I think someone else is now making the hulls (which, as junk hulls go, appear to be a tad bit higher quality than previous ones).
And as I've said before, the Claybuster CB-6100A, and the Claybuster CB-2118 (no Dr subs here!) do make for good loads in the Rio, but as thor_sen and myself have mentioned, the GU-1225 is the most ideal performing wad for this hull, and you can expect to find chrono figures that mimic these actual numbers:
Location: Renton Fish & Game
Date/Time: 2/6/2010 15:30 PST
Temperature: ~60 Deg F
Chrono: ProChrono Digital
Test Gun: 30-inch Browning XS Skeet
Choke: Carlson extended SKT/SKT
Barrel used: lower
String 2 (left box): Rio, 1-oz #7-1/2, GU 1225, 20.0 Clays, Fio 616
H: 1249
L: 1212
A: 1231
ES: 37
SD: 13
Okay, whew. At least I can resume hoping that BP's different experiences aren't to be chalked up to him living a cleaner life than me, in our younger daze. Thanks, Republican! ;-)Republican said:
Wow. My 4 cases of Gualandi -1225's and -1227's were waiting for me on the front porch upon my return home, today!
Almost immediately, I noticed a potential problem with the way these wads are bulk packed into large cardboard cartons, whether its in Italy, pre-loading onto the cargo ship or; post-arrival CONUS at BPI; there was a gaping hole (actually 2) in the sides of one of the cartons and, while it didn't appear the pushed in cardboard had ever allowed any wads to come pouring out, I'll never know . . .
How that came to be was made obvious after I got 'em into my cellar and went to move one with my boot - the cardboard was so 'brittle' I instantly heard the cardboard "cracking." I know it took months for the BPI-designated cargo container in Italy to fill-up to the point they'd crane it onto a cargo-liner and I can't help but wonder if the heat inside dried the cardboard out the point it has become brittle. Wads seem fine but, have to make a note to try and be here next time the delivery person arrives, etc.
Also, this is the first time I've received case qtys of wads from BPI and there wasn't loading data sheets inside. I'll have to call Monday and see if that is because I did not specifically ask.
Upon visual inspection, everything Mokeman3 had told me about what made these wads THE IDEAL for RIO hulls became instantaneously obvious - the second or "inner" circle or "ring" of plastic appears it is going to literally be using the upper ridge of the hulls basewads, as opposed to every other hull in existence fighting it (if not requiring a minimum weight of a particular powder)!
Guess I'll to find other, 3/4oz uses for the case of VP-05, and half-case each of Super Sparks and Rex 24 wads I'm sitting on, now (I know I can use the VP-05's for 3/4oz loads but, guess now I'll be keeping an eye out for once-field Fiocchi 12ga hulls, as well as Federal and Estate promo hulls - which I can be certain never got wet). I can think of worse problems to have, though . . .
Holy cripes Republican - the ability (and willingness) of several of you members (Curly! ;-) to post photos, the quality of which y'all do, makes each one worth a million words in this hobby. Probably a million saved hairs, expletives and minutes, too!
Thanks!
Man, now that I finally have these G-1225 and -1227 wads in hand, I am really looking forward to playing with some 7/8- oz and (dare I hope) maybe even 3/4-oz loads in the endless supply of free, clean and once-fired RIO's I have coming my way, these days!
If anyone has any 12guage ¾, 7/8- or 1oz data for the Gualandi 1225's and 1227's using powders such as Red Dot, e3, Clay Dot, Clays or even Solo, please let me know!
Best o' success!
Handyhoot, in addition to Burnt Powder's entirely viable suggestion (e.g., check the straight-walled hull data pages at Alliant's website);
there is also loading data for straight-walled hulls available at the Ballistic Products website --- not only where you see "Load Data" next to each photo in the pages showing what they carry, etc. but,
also (and perhaps even more beneficial for your sub-gauge purposes) also in the section where they list "The Curmudgeon's" "Load-of-the-Week".
Best o' success!
there is also loading data for straight-walled hulls available at the Ballistic Products website --- not only where you see "Load Data" next to each photo in the pages showing what they carry, etc. but,
also (and perhaps even more beneficial for your sub-gauge purposes) also in the section where they list "The Curmudgeon's" "Load-of-the-Week".
Best o' success!
By FAR, the best shooting straight-wall hull load that I've concocted with a GU-1227 is this:thor_sen said:
7/8's #8, Purple Fiocchi hull (short base wad), GU-1227, 19.0 grns (#35 bushing) of 'e3', and a Fio 616. It cycles my Benelli Cordoba with noticeable authority, and is hell on Sporting Clays targets. my-my what a magical load! I shot a flat of them today, and I was knocking em dead on all games I shot today (16-yard, lots-O-skeet), and a 100 Sporting Clays targets. I misplaced the chrono data for them, and so I'll have to re-chorno them.
I have every reason to believe that using the Rio hull with the same components above will duplicate this magical load.
But I do have data with the GU-1227 in a Rio hull with 7/8 oz using Hodgdon Clays, and it is:
Location: Renton Fish & Game
Date/Time: 2/6/2010 15:30 PST
Temperature: ~60 Deg F
Chrono: ProChrono Digital
Test Gun: 30-inch Browning XS Skeet
Choke: Carlson extended SKT/SKT
Barrel used: lower
String 4 (Left box): Rio, 7/8 oz #7-1/2, GU 1227, 20.0 Clays, Fio 616
H: 1324
L: 1295
A: 1308
ES: 29
SD: 8
And for 3/4 oz, they do appear to begin to become a bit unstable, at least with Hodgdon's Clays. I'm going to rework that load with e3 to see if I can stabilize that a bit. Anyways, the 3/4 oz data from the same chrono test session above is as follows:
String 6 (Left box): Rio, 3/4 oz #9, GU 1227, 19.5 Clays, Fio 616
H: 1320
L: 1225
A: 1278
ES: 95
SD: 34
On the Gualandi winfall at BPI, I haven't received mine yet from BPI, and I'm starting to get concerned. They did call (last Monday I think?) and say that the credit card number that I gave them when we landed this deal in October (?) has since expired (November actually), and so I gave them a new one. I was hoping to have received them by now. I may need to call them. Hope no one took them off of the porch. (can't imagine neighborhood thugs making off with 15,000 wads).
On the box package thing, well, I guess I did know about that fact that they come 5,000 bulk and un-bagged, so I should have warned you about that. John (member "vision96" here) informed me about that when he first introduced me to the Gualandi wads. I was unaware about the shortcomings of the cardboard box itself. But the price is still right, that's for sure! (I believe that you and I got the same pricing).
I didn't order any GU-1227's, and just all GU-1225's, so I'm hoping that doesn't come back to haunt me. But I should be able to still load 7/8's oz in the GU-1225 since they have the same shot cup. I do still have about 500 or so GU-1227's here.
Anyways, on to the photo section of this post...
19.0 grains of e3 provides this powder cup height off of the base wad with the GU-1225:
And the same 19.0 grains of e3 provides this powder cup height with the GU-1227:
And with Hodgdon's Clays, 20.0 grains provides this height with the GU-1225:
And with the same 20.0 grains of Clays, the GU-1227 provides even more height:
And so you can see, with both, the GU-1225, and GU-1227, there is plenty of latitude to either reduce the powder charge (say 18.0-19.0 grn's) of Hodgdon's Clays, and/or for the "dot" heads, the ability to use the denser Clay dot, or another powder.
Republican, many thanks!
Alliant's e3 is my go-to powder once temps drop below the 50's here in the central Atlantic (yesterday and today the high's won't go above 28^F, let alone freezing
) so, these recipes are timely, to say the least!
I for one will be very interested to see what you find using e3 with the 3/4oz loads, as opposed to Clays.
Based on my own individual experience when I got into 3/4oz 12ga loads, I eschew Clays for anything under 7/8oz but, I understand there're others who don't. Cool. Just takes too much of the stuff to push 3/4oz both efficiently and effectively IMO when I can get by with le$$ powder by using e3 in cold weather and Red Dot or Promo in warmer seasons, with the appropriate / published wad-to-hull combo. Of course, I've also had 3/4oz success with Bullseye and 700 but, again, I am completely new with just about any powder to the straight-walled 12ga hulls but, I am finding the learning both economically-satisfying and worthwhile.
From the opposite perspective, I was wondering if I'd goofed by ordering such large qtys of both 1225's *and* 1227's as I understand the 1225's are typically for 1oz loads, which I very rarely require. But, I am ecstatic to have you confirm (and illustrate) how well they work with 7/8oz. Besides, given the ups and downs we've all seen with the various components over the last decade, I'm convinced having too many components on hand is always a better thing than not!
Lastly, I have discovered what a difference the last, "finishing," die makes in preventing the crimp edges on my RIO 12ga reloads from 'swelling.' Plagued by the problem when getting started with RIO 12ga's on my single-stage Jr, I've since picked up a used Grabber and man, what a difference that last station makes as far as the finished reloads feeding in my Benelli 'Sport' (tightest chambered gun in our household with the only close second being the wife's Beretta 390)!
Handyhooter, if you haven't already done so, you may want to contact / call BPI directly and inquire as to what 16ga data they have available. I have been repeatedly surprised and even impressed by just how knowledgeable the individuals are who answer the phones, there. Much more than just minimum wage operators, they also have in the room with them bags of every dang wad BPI sells so they could actuallly answer any questions I've had about various 28ga wads, as they held the actual products in front of them, on their end of the line!
And then, there is also the entire website and accompanying forum(s) dedicated to "The 16ga Society," if you haven't tried there, either . . .
Republican, thanks again and, Handy hooter, best o' success!
Alliant's e3 is my go-to powder once temps drop below the 50's here in the central Atlantic (yesterday and today the high's won't go above 28^F, let alone freezing
) so, these recipes are timely, to say the least!I for one will be very interested to see what you find using e3 with the 3/4oz loads, as opposed to Clays.
Based on my own individual experience when I got into 3/4oz 12ga loads, I eschew Clays for anything under 7/8oz but, I understand there're others who don't. Cool. Just takes too much of the stuff to push 3/4oz both efficiently and effectively IMO when I can get by with le$$ powder by using e3 in cold weather and Red Dot or Promo in warmer seasons, with the appropriate / published wad-to-hull combo. Of course, I've also had 3/4oz success with Bullseye and 700 but, again, I am completely new with just about any powder to the straight-walled 12ga hulls but, I am finding the learning both economically-satisfying and worthwhile.
From the opposite perspective, I was wondering if I'd goofed by ordering such large qtys of both 1225's *and* 1227's as I understand the 1225's are typically for 1oz loads, which I very rarely require. But, I am ecstatic to have you confirm (and illustrate) how well they work with 7/8oz. Besides, given the ups and downs we've all seen with the various components over the last decade, I'm convinced having too many components on hand is always a better thing than not!
Lastly, I have discovered what a difference the last, "finishing," die makes in preventing the crimp edges on my RIO 12ga reloads from 'swelling.' Plagued by the problem when getting started with RIO 12ga's on my single-stage Jr, I've since picked up a used Grabber and man, what a difference that last station makes as far as the finished reloads feeding in my Benelli 'Sport' (tightest chambered gun in our household with the only close second being the wife's Beretta 390)!
Handyhooter, if you haven't already done so, you may want to contact / call BPI directly and inquire as to what 16ga data they have available. I have been repeatedly surprised and even impressed by just how knowledgeable the individuals are who answer the phones, there. Much more than just minimum wage operators, they also have in the room with them bags of every dang wad BPI sells so they could actuallly answer any questions I've had about various 28ga wads, as they held the actual products in front of them, on their end of the line!
And then, there is also the entire website and accompanying forum(s) dedicated to "The 16ga Society," if you haven't tried there, either . . .
Republican, thanks again and, Handy hooter, best o' success!
Sure will do. Although, I don't do much 3/4 oz any more, - just too much of a pain, and I "sorta" subscribe to the mindsets that 3/4 oz in 12-bore tends to fall into the novelty load category, and the only real successful 3/4 oz load (according to my standards) was 16.5 grn's e3 and a CB-0178 in a AA HS. But I don't have/do AA HS's anymore, so all of that is sorta out the window these days. But I will re-evaluate e3 for 3/4 oz with the GU-1227's in Rio's just so we have a base line.thor_sen said:Republican, many thanks!
Alliant's e3 is my go-to powder once temps drop below the 50's here in the central Atlantic (yesterday and today the high's won't go above 28^F, let alone freezing
I for one will be very interested to see what you find using e3 with the 3/4oz loads, as opposed to Clays.
And I wasn't ever really a fan of screaming-fast loads until yesterday at the Sporting Clays course (and some semi-serious testing the previous week). I'd have to say that I did the best that I ever have (which really isn't all that hot) with them 7/8's oz #8 with 19.0 grns e3 and GU-1227's and Fio 616's in Fiocchi purple hulls in my Benelli Cordoba with a factory MOD choke.
Maybe the extra velocity changed my leads (i.e. maybe I've always been behind the targets in Sporting Clays), or maybe it improved the pattern, I just don't know, but I can tell you with certainty that is was a vast improvement (to where my shooting pattern even noticed and said something).
So I'd have to say that I'm starting to believe that there is some merit to fast(er) loads for Sporting Clays.
PS: what's the difference between a Benelli "Sport" and "Sport-II" ? (I had a Super Sport which is the same as the wood-stock version of the Sport-II).
Is it just me or does reloading "Eurotrash" hulls seem to be much ado about nothing? It appears to me pitching such hulls into 'file 13' and finding some one piece compression formed hulls to reload (thank you, Remington) is the ticket. Unless you are on a desert island with no other alternative.
It might be you... (no offense)Shootshellz said:
As I've said before, I can't speak as to why others decide to reload Rio's, but I can explain once again why I do it.
There are certain shooting venues such as Sporting Clays where there is not a way to pick your hulls back up if you shoot an auto such as a Benelli Cordoba like I like to use for Sporting and certain 3-bird 5-stand shoots. I don't find enough good Remington Gun Clubs to be afforded the luxury of letting twice-fired Gun Clubs fly and lay on the ground (where I can't pick them back up). Since the trash cans are chock-full of Rio's, I can reach in and scoop out many flats worth of Rio's to load up for "load once, and let em fly" situations described above.
And as an added bonus, if you get the word out to friends, and fellow shooters at your club, you can get the folks who don't reload and just shoot range shells to dump their empty Rio's in your bag. I leave a white kitchen trash bag open, and on the benches/table next to my range bag, it's not uncommon for me to come back from the Skeet/Trap fields to find my white kitchen bag full of once-fired Rio's that others have dumped in there for me while emptying their pouches.
They reload and shoot well enough, and I've been accustomed to them enough that it wouldn't bother me if I completely ran out of my good Gun Clubs, and get to a point of loading and shooting Rios 100% exclusively even for the games where I do shoot my B/O guns and able to pocket the empties.
Actually, after reflecting on it a bit, I reminded myself my original intention was to use the much roomier 12ga RIO's for 7/8 and 1oz sporting loads and save my domestic 12ga hulls for the 3/4, 11/16 and 5/8oz loads (depending on the crush section 'stiffness' of the CB-0178's I get ahold of). No doubt about it, the roomier hulls are not that conducive to the 12ga "Extra-lite loads" and, being able to use the plentiful RIO's for my 7/8oz and up loads, I don't "have to" go there!Republican said:
Y'know, I dunno . . . for sure. I only know I shot on a squad once or twice with a Bennelli employee who spied my Sport (no number following the word) and he told me it was the earliest predecessor to the current Sport II's, Super Sport, etc. Fact is, I got the gun for my wife years ago after completing a Bennelli Armorer's course through work. I think that might've been '95 or '96 if that helps (e.g., what years did the other 'sports' appear?). Anyway, she didn't like it anywhere near as much her Beretta AL390 so, the gun quickly reverted back to my side o' the gun safe!Republican said:
It may not be you and it just may be quite, 'much ado about nothing.' At least, I base that on the perceptions and stated expressions of so many of my shooting partners of mean$ who ask the same question about ALL reloading. They, for the life of them, cannot figure why anyone would ever resort to taking ANY fired hulls (Remington or RIO!) B-A-C-K to their vehicle (let alone their home!), for any purpose. :shock:Shootshellz said:
God Bless America!
Rep.
I'm not surprised that there are a variety of different hull types with the Rio moniker emblazoned on them. I suppose whoever had the cheapest contract bid on a sizable quantity of loaded shells got to provide the hulls too, whomever's they may have been? I don't doubt the bigol' Spanish ammo firm may use or even make more than one kind of hull too. Still says Rio on them though.
Granted, I myself have a very limited amount of experience with Rio hulls, or for that matter any of the other Eurotrash hulls. I had all the bad experiences I care for with those kinds of hulls in 28 ga and .410 and I can find all the Remington and Winchester 12 ga hulls I could possibly need without getting intimatly involved with Rios, Kent, PMC,Wolf, or, or, or, So, I'll bet you are right, (unless you are fooling arround with some computer power goo, photo-workshop tom fool trickery here) some Rio hulls are different, mine just happen to all be the same. They just ain't worth the aggravation to me, especially after factoring in the extra powder drop in those hulls to get the same performance I get with my Remchester hulls.
But, like you said, you have valid reasons for using them, or at least it seems that way to you, and it must to other folks too or they wouldn't be making wads for those clunkers.
BP
I'm not surprised that there are a variety of different hull types with the Rio moniker emblazoned on them. I suppose whoever had the cheapest contract bid on a sizable quantity of loaded shells got to provide the hulls too, whomever's they may have been? I don't doubt the bigol' Spanish ammo firm may use or even make more than one kind of hull too. Still says Rio on them though.
Granted, I myself have a very limited amount of experience with Rio hulls, or for that matter any of the other Eurotrash hulls. I had all the bad experiences I care for with those kinds of hulls in 28 ga and .410 and I can find all the Remington and Winchester 12 ga hulls I could possibly need without getting intimatly involved with Rios, Kent, PMC,Wolf, or, or, or, So, I'll bet you are right, (unless you are fooling arround with some computer power goo, photo-workshop tom fool trickery here) some Rio hulls are different, mine just happen to all be the same. They just ain't worth the aggravation to me, especially after factoring in the extra powder drop in those hulls to get the same performance I get with my Remchester hulls.
But, like you said, you have valid reasons for using them, or at least it seems that way to you, and it must to other folks too or they wouldn't be making wads for those clunkers.
BP
So tell me, O wise one, just what are these alternatives (for my situation) ?Shootshellz said:
Where am I to find enough free Gun Club range pickups to allow me to shoot my autoloader (with the volume that I do) in 3-bird shoots, and on Sporting Clays courses in elevated shooting stands to where I'm not afforded the ability to pick my Gun Clubs ?
Are you somehow suggesting that I should not shoot the 3-bird shoots, and/or not use my Benelli Cordoba on these Sporting Clays courses, or to continue to use it, but just "buy" tons of once-fired Gun Clubs just so that I can let them fly over the hill side to where I can't pick them up? I can't see that as being a "better alternative". Believe it or not, there actually are clubs that don't even allow you to pick up your hulls once they hit the ground anyhow.
My Gulandi wads arrived today. No holes in the boxes, no "crispy" cracky boxes, - cardboard boxes all seem fine. Phoebie, my indoor cat, immediately hopped up on them to approve the shipment:thor_sen said:
The guy on the box sure seems happy, - just like me!
Republican: I guess you just don't 'get' it. We will have to agree to disagree. IMHO, you seem the type to prefer the Ford Model T (hand crank) to the Ford Model A (self starter). To each his own. If you are ever in the Seattle area I would be glad to treat you to a few rounds of skeet; no hard feelings.
Yeah, heck, I'm still not seeing your point (or maybe you nor mine).Shootshellz said:
If I had an endless supply of Gun Clubs, I'd ditch the Rio's and just reload the Gun Clubs, - who wouldn't ?
And I actually do live in the Seattle area. I shoot at Seattle Skeet and Trap on Saturdays, Renton Fish and Game on Sundays, and of course, Black Diamond Gun club on Wednesday nights, and I'll be there tomorrow night around 5-6PM and stay there till after closing time at 10PM. Just ask for Steve (the raccoon killer) - everyone will know who that is.
I have loaded Green dot in the Rio blues in 1-1/8th oz and a WAA12 clone (the infamous Blue duster), and they worked surprisingly well. I was loading 21 grains of green dot, and shooting them from a Benelli Cordoba (my official bad performing load test jig).Pohok said:
The issue you are going to have is with primers. This is because the Rio blue's have the UUE sized primer pocket which is a tad larger in diameter. Please don't attempt to load the Winchester primers in them, - they will fall out either in you pocket, or worse yet, in the action of your gun (if it is an autoloader, or a slide-action).
The 3 primers that are known to stay in a Rio primer are:
- Rio G-600/G1000[/*]
- Nobel Sport[/*]
- Fiocchi Fio 616[/*]
Your particular Cheddite's might be a marginal fit, - you will have to try that to see if it will stay in. I just went out and tried it with my Cheddites, and about 50% either fell out, or were able to pulled out with my thumb nail. Maybe there's a way that you can swap a sleeve of some of your Cheddite primers with someone who has some Fiocchi Fio 616 primers ?
For the actual load data, general rule-of-thumb is that you can use any published Euro-hull data such as Fiocchi hull data, or Cheddite hull data (as well as Federal hull data).
For example, using Alliants Federal hull data, you basically have :
Since the 209A is the hottest primer, you can safely use that data for any of the medium-strength primers.
So if you feel that your Cheddite primers will say in your Rio hulls, you might try 21-grains of Green dot. Are your wads OEM Winchester WAA12's, or some clone therein ?
And keep in mind, that the Rio is still technically a Reifenhäuser-style hull (straight-wall), and so any of the taper'd wall wads (such as the WAA12) will be less than ideal performance-wise. But they will still work. Like I said, I shot 21-grains of green dot under 1-1/8th oz in blue dusters (WAA12 clone) with a Rio primer, and they were usable in my Benelli Cordoba.
Ok, well, we'll help you out the best we can.
Historically, new reloaders are discouraged from attempting to reload Rio hulls for the first time by some forum members, and are encouraged to learn on Gun clubs and Winchester AA HS's. But I don't see any reason why Rio's can't be your first reloads. If you have the attention to detail, they can be very rewarding and economical to reload. Invariably you'll get around to reloading all of the different types of hulls and get first-hand experience on all facets of reloading.
Welcome to ShotgunWorld by the way. You might also want to update your profile to include your location.
Historically, new reloaders are discouraged from attempting to reload Rio hulls for the first time by some forum members, and are encouraged to learn on Gun clubs and Winchester AA HS's. But I don't see any reason why Rio's can't be your first reloads. If you have the attention to detail, they can be very rewarding and economical to reload. Invariably you'll get around to reloading all of the different types of hulls and get first-hand experience on all facets of reloading.
Welcome to ShotgunWorld by the way. You might also want to update your profile to include your location.
Welcome!Pohok said:
You ain't gonna hear no reason why you shouldn't use them from me!
I started loading on those and only load euro straight wall hulls.
The only shells I'll tell you not to reload are Eley firsts (67mm legth which you don't get in USA) They are really difficult but maybe need a shorter wad than I can get.
Fiocchi high brass trap shells (dark navy colour - plastic just doesn't seem to crimp well.)
Other than that I have had no problems with:
Eley 70mm hulls.
RC
Fiocchi
Vinci
Hull
Gamebore
I haven't tried Sellier and Bellot as they are really thick plastic and not enough people shoot them to warrant trying.
Go for it and enjoy!!
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