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 Post subject: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:23 pm
Posts: 205
Location: so cal
With the $$ of lead I Thought of making some 11/16oz #9 12ga & 5/8 #9 20ga play loads for play around skeet in the dessert. My fastest shotgun powder is promo. This should be good in the 20 but what about the 12. I plan to run the 12 fast 1300-1400 to keep the pressure up but have others tried it and does it work well? Yeah I know extra lite would be better and if you have a spare 8lb jug you want to bring me for a reasonable price that would be great. But in the mean time promo is what I got since G-dot, am select, WST, WSF, B-dot, Longshot, unique and all my rifle powders will not work. :(



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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 2112
Location: Western Carolina - foothills to the Great Smoky Mtns!
2 questions:

Bigboreblaster wrote:
My fastest shotgun powder is promo. This should be good in the 20 but what about the 12 . . .

1) Just curious but, upon what info are you basing the suggestion Promo "should be good in the 20?"

; and,

Bigboreblaster wrote:
" . . . promo is what I got since G-dot, am select, WST, WSF, B-dot, Longshot, unique and all my rifle powders will not work. :(

2) Why won't Unique work on the 20, for 5/8oz loads?

The one answer I can offer is that I routinely use 17 to 19 grains of Promo too push 11/16oz loads in 12ga. (With Promo -- any 12ga powder really -- I basically take 12ga recipes tested and/or published in 7/8 or 3/4 oz and simply (read that, only) reduce my payload -- FROM 14/16 or 12/16 -- TO 11/16.

I have always obtained excellent results in all my break and manual actions (sxs, o/u and pumps). Success varies; however; with semi-autos and 3 of my 5 semi-autos cycle the 11/16 loads extraordinarily and the remaining two semis, not at all.


Best o' success (with the Promo in the 12ga and other, 20ga powders, in the 20 ga)!

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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:06 am
Posts: 3768
Location: UK, England, Britain
sounds like you are trying to re-invent the wheel in the age of "nascar"

read up alittle more and get a proper recipe from a trusted source.


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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:45 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Behind the cannabis curtain in NoCal
Red Dot/Promo works well for me in 3/4 oz 12 gauge, but I need 18.5-19g to get a reliable burn in cold weather if primer availability is a problem. With Fed 209A's, I can go a little lighter on the powder and still get a good burn in the winter. Extra Lite, Clays, Titewad, e3 would all be better if they were available, but right now you gotta use what's there.

You may need to use something like a CB-0178 or Winchester gray wad instead of a normal 3/4 oz wad because the powder may be bulky enough to make the stack height a little high. I use the CB-0178 wads, the 175 wads are a little too tall.

Hope that helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: Eastern Nebraska
There was a time (40 years ago) when Red Dot was listed for 20 gauge. But this has not been the case for a long time. Promo is a direct grain for grain replacement for Red Dot. It is logical that powders used for midrange 12 gauges loads could be useful for lightweight 20 gauge loads. But logic and published data are NOT one and the same. A few years back we had extensive discussions about Red Dot or Promo in light weight 20 gauge loads. A member named Case posted some laboratory data for these. As I recall the data indicated that Red Dot and Promo where quite feasible for 3/4 ounce. But again that is NOT published data from a powder company.

Just MHO but I kind of rank load data in three categories:

Published by someone like Lymans, Alliant, or Hodgdon
Published by a respected member of the forum who includes exact details and laboratory pressure data
Some guy on a U-Tube video who knows it is safe because his gun did not blow up


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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:39 am 
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If you are going to use logic to transfer 12 ga loads to a 20 ga gun there is one major item. A 12 ga has larger barrel for the pressure from the chamber section to dissipate. The 20 gauge does not have that luxury and the resulting pressures can often be more than it can take. Thus the reason that 12 ga 7/8 ounce loads rarely transfer to 20 gauge and it is based on logic.

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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:51 pm
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Location: Broken Bow, OK
Case loved Promo for light loads in 12 and 20 ga, he even tried it in 28ga.

Here is his discussion on the matter.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=73343

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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:12 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: Eastern Nebraska
I never suggested transferring 12 gauge 7/8 loads to 20 gauge. I said 12 gauge MIDRANGE loads. To me a 12 gauge midrange load is something like 1 1/8 ounce at 1200-1250 FPS. These are often done with Green Dot, Herco, Unique, and 20/28. Guess what- these all work well for 20 gauge 7/8 ounce loads (although there is concern with GD and tubes. ) Considering this, it does seem logical that a powder that is very popular for 12 gauge 1 1/8 at 1200 and 12 gauge 1 ounce would be useable for LIGHT 20 gauge such as 3/4 ounce. When I say "logical" I do not mean load em up and go shooting. However, if you really want to use the powder for this use there is a good chance that some laboratory testing will confirm that it does work. In fact that is what Case did.


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 Post subject: Re: Promo in 12ga lite loads ?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 4977
Lyman #3 has Red Dot loads for 20 gauge 7/8 ounce loads in Federal paper basewad hulls.

Charges were 13.0-14.0 grains RD under the Fed 20S1, WAA-20, Rem RXP-20. Velocities ran 1150-1180 and pressures were moderate. I have fired many hundreds of these in several 20 gauge guns with no problems whatsoever and reliable function in two gas and one inertia guns.

It's not that the load was/is unsafe, it's simply the the guns have changed, specifically the use of thin chambered lightweight sub gauge tubes in 12 gauge guns. As I understand from people who have experience, the problem is cracking of the thin chamber walls. This is a catastrophic failure of the gun or barrel, the crack is confined to the sub gauge tube chamber.

The old data sources often have lots of good information and useful loads that have been dropped for reasons other than the safety or utility of the load.

Case's 20 gauge Promo load worked fine in my pump and break open 20's but would not cycle the action of any autoloader. I have used the 7/8 loads I mentioned above with 3/4 ounce of shot and they will cycle my gas suns.




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