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 Post subject: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:10 am 
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There are a lot of threads on loading 20 gauge 3/4 oz loads, and a lot of interest. Unfortunately much of the info is spread over 10 years of posts, and some of the real golden nuggets are embedded in threads that at first glance don't appear of interest. It's a lot of reading and confusing to remember what you read after all the disagreements and differing opinions.
I thought I'd list the main points I extracted from all my reading, things many of the respected reloading posters here have agreed on, with supporting links, as a way to ease the research for others (and give me a place to review what I kinda recall reading at some date in the future...)

1. Why load 3/4oz in 20ga?
- lower recoil than "standard" 7/8 oz loads.
- plenty for skeet and close clays
- great "starter load" for new shooters to keep them from quitting/flinching due to recoil (kids, wife, etc.)
- essentially a 28 gauge load but cheaper to load in 20 gauge: hulls cheaper, more available, and give more reloads (according to some folks, who say the larger diameter hull mouth causes fewer crimp failures/splits).
- save $$-- shot is the most expensive component usually as of 2015, lighter payloads give more per bag: 533 3/4oz loads vs. 457 7/8oz loads vs. 400 1oz per 25lb bag of shot. Also takes less powder, particularly if you're loading a low-recoil/slower load around 1100fps or so.


2. What hulls to use?
REMINGTON Gun Club << #1 recommended in 20ga by far! All Remington load with same data.
- Just about everyone agrees that Remington GunClub are the best. Almost same hull as the Rem Nitro and Rem STS but cheaper shells, so GC more common often and give more reloads. Some folks like GC better than the STS plastic. GC hulls are actually steel based with a brass wash applied.
- Rem GC/STS/Nitro has an integral molded basewad so no worries about basewad separating with multiple reloads.
- Rem GC has good hull capacity, more than Win AAHS (not a real factor for 3/4oz load usually as it's small volume).
- Rem GC give good numbers of reloads with mouth and crimps staying good.

Best 20 ga. factory ammo to reload • Shotgunworld.com
I've got a new Beretta 686 20 ga. on the way and I'm going to pick up ... for this gun so I want to buy factory stuff with the best hulls for reloading.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=242899

20ga hulls • Shotgunworld.com
I want to know what everybodys opinion is on the best 20ga hull for reloading trap/skeet sheels, and why. I'm tired of buying all my 20ga shells, ...
viewtopic.php?t=15907

Who makes the best hulls for reloading? • Shotgunworld.com
Would it be Winchester, Remington, Federal? Which hulls in 12 and 20 gauge do you think are the best all-around for producing a good shell?
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=200249

Help me understand 20GA hulls - Winchester and Remington
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=420367


Winchester (AA HS, old AA Compression Formed, Super Target & SuperX sometimes called "Universal")
- Most agree that the Win AA HS is the 2nd best 20ga hull to reload
- All Win 20ga reload the same: old style CF, new AA HS, and the thinner walled Super Target and SuperX hulls
- Win AAHS have less capacity than most all other 20ga hulls, proper wad selection to fid the load in is critical. Not as hard with 3/4oz loads.
- Old Win AA Compression Formed (single piece hulls) are considered good (like Rem GC) if you can get them.
- Many folks don't like reloading 2 piece hulls with concerns about basewad separating and lodging in barrel
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=255210
- Almost everyone agrees the cheap Win SuperTarget hulls with with steel head are poor, mostly due to steel head expanding and getting stuck in chambers

20 gauge hull cut aways, Win "Universal", AA HS, CF; Rem ...
All win load the same. Hard to see, but the plastic sides are much thicker for the AA than for either the Super X or Super target, I put the side ...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=418214

Win Super Target hulls - Any good? • Shotgunworld.com
I picked up some 20 ga. Winchester Super Target hulls that my skeet partner was using. Appears to be a 2-piece hull with a plastic base-wad.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=234481


Win AAHS and Super Target difference • Shotgunworld.com
The other (Win Super Target) is a steel based hull that I throw away, but I suppose could be reloaded in a pinch. The AAHS is much easier to ...
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=398394

Win. Super Target • Shotgunworld.com
Winchester Super Target I've been saving these hulls, hoping to buy a reloader. Now's the time, but I'm not sure if these can be reloaded.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=40395

Win Super Target hulls • Shotgunworld.com
I picked up a bunch of Win super target hulls at the club on Sat. They look cheap and I've seen all the bad publicity about the Universal hulls ...
shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=191066

20ga. Win Super Target, Universals • Shotgunworld.com
The Win Universal hull is probably the worst hull for reloading of all the new shells on the market today. Win recommends that they not be ...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=208071

Straight-Walled Euro-Hulls: Cheddite, Fiocchi, Rio, Estate
- Some folks don't like these, saying they don't get good numbers of reloads
- Some folks DO like them, saying they get good reloads.
- Ballistic Products Inc uses these mostly in their loads, so if you're using their data you'll use these hulls
- Many powders that are becomming more common and easier to find (Vectan, Nobel Sport, Maxxum, CSB) give most recipes with euro hulls.
- pre-primed hulls are avail from BPI and can be good as no hazmat is charged
Crimping NEW Cheddite hulls • Shotgunworld.com
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=321475


Reloading Rio Hulls • Shotgunworld.com
Can someone direct me to, or send me recipes for loading 2 3/4" 12, 16, 20 gauge Rio hulls? I have data from BPI but it is pretty restricted and ...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=246027

Rio shotshell primer, and issues with Rio basewad damaging wad with low powder charges:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=245474

3. Fitting stuff in the hulls for good crimp
- With only 3/4oz of shot, just about everything is guaranteed to fit--the problem is filling up hull enough to have good crimps that are not dished.
- Some folks recommend the 7/8oz CB wad (Win AA replacement CB1078-20). However, Claybuster now makes a 3/4oz wad specifically for 20ga, the CB1075-20. This is basically the 7/8oz wad with a plastic lump in the shot cup that takes up some space, making the 3/4oz of shot come up to the top of the wad. Using zero wad pressure is a good starting spot, just look to make sure the top of the shot cup is aligned with the "crimp edge" on the hull. Slightly high should compress fine during final crimp; but too low will allow hull walls to be unsupported and can give hull buckling or crushed crimps; and for sure will give dished crimps though that's not a real problem. Either CB wad will work in my experience; try both and see which one requires the lease tweaking of your press.
- If some filler is needed to get the powder/wad/shot stack up high enough, you can use a wad in the base of shot cup, or an OverShot card, or plop a cheerio in there on top. I've tried it with Win Universal (super tgt) hulls which needed filler, all three worked but I found just using a cheerio on top the easiest.

4. Recipes and Powders:
- Alliant give recipes for 3/4oz loads in Winchester and Remington hulls only, using American Select, Green Dot, Unique, and 20/28. Pressures also go in that order, with American Select highest around 11,000psi, GD 9-11,000, Unique 7500-9000, and 20/28 fromm 6500-8200. Powder weights are between 12.5gr and 16.5 gr.
Powder density goes from 20/28 being most dense, then Unique, then Am Select, and Green Dot being the most bulky. This makes Green Dot a very good powder-- high bulk to fill up the shells giving good crimp, and also good pressures to give clean consistent burning: not too low, but not too high either making a forgiving powder.
- I've loaded Win AA/HS, Win Comp Formed (old), Win Universal shells with: (Unique, 20/28, Green Dot). I liked Green Dot the best, very good metering for consistent loads and light recoil.
- Hodgdon also gives recipes for 3/4oz loads in Win and Rem hulls only. They give recipes for 3 powders: Winchester Super Handicap, IMR PB (discontinued), and Hodgdon International Clays. I haven't loaded any Hodgdon/IMR/Win powders in 3/4oz 20ga loads; others may have, and hopefully they'll chime in below if so.
- Lyman 5th Ed gives NO 3/4oz recipes for 20ga.
- BPI in their "Advantages" load manual gives 120 recipes for hulls by Cheddite, Fiocchi, and Rio; using their wads, and most powders possible. They have recipes for 5/8oz - 13/16 oz. There are also 10 or so recipes for Win AAHS, Fed, and Rem STS/Premier using BPI or gualandi wads. Powders they cover that are not covered by Alliant or Hodgdon websites are 700x, 800x, Clays, Solo1000, Herco, and the discontinued SR7625 and SR4756.
- OF NOTE: Any 7/8oz load can be used and just reduce the shot charge to 3/4oz, safely, as this will reduce pressures from the already published acceptable ones. Using a recipe up 10-11,000psi should ensure sufficient pressure still to get good burns and function.




Last edited by Dave in AZ on Thu May 07, 2015 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:11 am 
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My Favorite 3/4 oz (328grain) loads (PW shot bushing #3 gives 321 grains of #9shot):
1. Win AA CF hulls (old style) or HS; Win209; CB 1075-20 3/4oz wad; 3/4oz #9
14.2 grains Green Dot (PW bushing #F).

Notes:
- Alliant lists 14gr= 1200fps and 10,300psi; and 14.8gr = 1250fps and 11,100psi.
- 14.2 gr would give 10,500psi in linear approx; it burned nicely clean, and that's a good area to be in for pressure.
- Green Dot metered the most accurately of all powders I have tried in 20 ga, along with 20/28 being about the same. (Green Dot, 20/28, Unique >> 800x). In 10 measures during loading, 6 were exactly 14.2gr, 2 were 14.1gr, 2 were 14.3 gr. 5 random tests during later loading were all 14.2gr.
- Loaded 25 each of AA CF hulls, AA HS, and Super Target (Universal). All 75 shells performed well, with strong semi-auto function throwing hulls 11-12ft
- String of 5 shots each chronographed; 5' from end of muzzle; F1 Chrony; sunny day 80F.
- Winchester SX-3 Field, Compact 24" barrel, semi auto.
- 40 yard taped pattern for each of the 3 hulls was shot, and all three patterns looked good; I did not see any real open areas nor any differences between the hulls. I did take photos, and may upload them here later if I remember to take them off phone.
- The three hulls for comparison, notice HS least volume is pushing up crimp, Univ most volume is dished:
Image

- Win CF good crimps, zero wad pressure. "Normal" press settings for HS shells slightly too low; had to reduce primer seating by 1/8" and raise pre-crimp 1/8" to keep from getting swirls; once set, all crimps were good. 12.5' ejection, hulls in small 1'diam area.
Avg 1225 fps. Lost the data on ES, SD, and indiv speeds.

- AA HS
Image
Had least hull volume; good crimps as seen above, zero wad pressure (just grounded it on powder). 12' ejection
Avg 1200fps, Extreme Spread 39.53, Standard Dev 16.1 (1188, 1225, 1186, 1206, 1194)

- Win Super Target (Universal) hull,
Image
has thinner walls than above two, steel base requiring firmer resizing, and mouth retains almost no crimp memory after firing. This led to difficulties in pre-crimp not being able to align with previous crimp and not giving 8 good folds; those shells had "smashed" crimps. Hulls that aligned ok, about 90% of them, gave ok crimps but most looked "off center" with crimp center being displaced from hull true center. Also required more delicate and slower final crimping to ensure no hull crushing and that crimp took. Worked fine, produced good looking loads when I removed the "bad ones", but I'd much rather load the CF or HS hulls. Also required me to raise pre-crimp and reduce wad insert depth the most of all three. 11' ejection distance.
Avg 1185fps, ES 41, SD 16.7 (1176, 1180, 1198, 1207, 1166).

Final Analysis: I would shoot this load in any of the three hulls, but would go with CF first, then HS, then Universals if I needed hulls. All semi-auto function was strong, and I believe then next lower bushing at 13.3gr for me (PW #E2) will work fine; will try that next.


Last edited by Dave in AZ on Thu May 07, 2015 1:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:18 am 
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A good thread on 5/8 oz load with Green Dot by gc4895. Not quite 3/4oz but you know... Still nice ;) The extra shot fills out the hulls well so I can see needing a cheerio with this slightly reduced load.
His recipe:
20ga WW-HS, Fiocci Primer, 5/8oz #9, CB 1075-20 3/4oz wad, 13.2gr Green Dot, 1 cheerio (spacer)
The thread for good read:
20ga load with Green Dot
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=419992


Last edited by Dave in AZ on Thu May 07, 2015 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:41 am 
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My Favorite 3/4 oz loads
---- (PW shot bushing #3 gives 321 grains of #9shot):
2. Win AA CF hulls (old style) or HS; Win209; CB 1075-20 3/4oz wad; 3/4oz #9
14.2 grains 20/28 (PW bushing #D1).

Notes:
- Alliant lists 14.5gr= 1200fps and 7200psi; and 15.5gr = 1250fps and 7900psi.
- These pressures seemed lower than I like to use, and I was worried about inconsistent burns (thus speed deviations) and dirtiness; HOWEVER, the speeds were about as consistent as with Green Dot, and the cleanliness was about the same. Recoil may have been better with 20/28, so light I couldn't be sure.
- I had to use 14.2gr that my D1 PW bushing threw, as the next higher bushing "E" threw 16.1gr, too high. I was also worried this light powder load, which should be even less than 7200psi, would be problematic; no issues however, and I would even go lighter perhaps.
- 20/28 metered the most accurately of all powders I have tried in 20 ga, along with Green Dot being about the same. Really GREAT to work with compared to 800x!!! (Green Dot, 20/28, Unique >> 800x). In 15 measures during loading, 9 were 14.2gr, 3 were 14.1gr, 3 were 14.3 gr.
- Loaded 25 each of AA CF hulls, AA HS, and Super Target (Universal). All 75 shells performed well, with strong semi-auto function throwing hulls 12.5-13.5ft (slightly farther than GreenDot despite reduced powder load).
- String of 5 shots each chronographed; 5' from end of muzzle; F1 Chrony; sunny day 80F.
- Winchester SX-3 Field, Compact 24" barrel, semi auto.
- 40 yard taped pattern for each of the 3 hulls was shot, and all three patterns looked good; I did not see any real open areas nor any differences between the hulls. I did take photos, and may upload them here later if I remember to take them off phone.

- Win CF old style: good crimps, shot column slightly too low. Reduced wad pressure from HS hulls and moving pre-crimp up 1/16" higher than in HS hulls worked well; produced best crimps of all 3 hull styles when set correctly, though HS were close. Ejected 13.5 feet. Best speed, furthest eject.
Avg 1253fps, ES 29.7, SD 12.4 (1258 1261 1232 1262 1251). Over 50fps faster than expected.

- AA HS: All fit well, good crimps. Zero wad pressure. 13' ejection into small 2' area.
Avg 1230fps, ES 47, SD 19.5 (1202, 1227, 1248, 1223, 1249). This was better than the 1200fps predicted with .3gr more powder!

- Win Sup Tgt (Universal) with "W" on hull: slightly dished crimp, ok with cheerio but not really any better than dish; good seals. Some crimp crushing, 1/5 of them maybe due to still setting press for them. However hulls are surely the weakest and least forgiving of these 3 for wad pressure and pre-crimp. Shot column too low as I had it set, higher gave more hull wall support near crimp and stopped crushing at crimp; had to have zero wad pressure, maybe less... aligned wad top with crimp worked ok.
Avg 1192fps, ES 17, SD 7.3 (1182 1201 1189 1198 1184). BEST consistency, surprisingly!!

Final Analysis:
20/28 worked fine and produced faster loads with much less pressure than GD... I was worried the pressure would be too low, but all shells functioned similar with all ejections positive and at 12-13.5ft without fail in 75 shots. Did not notice much difference between this and Green Dot; will likely save 20/28 for 28ga though. Due to already low (7000ish psi) pressure with 20/28, I think I would not want to reduce powder much though fps says I could... Very good working load though, I wouldn't hesitate to load up 1000.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:47 am 
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My Favorite 3/4 oz loads
---- (PW shot bushing #3 gives 321 grains of #9shot):
3. Win AA CF hulls (old style) or HS; Win209; CB 1075-20 3/4oz wad; 3/4oz #9
14.7 grains Unique (PW bushing #E2).

Notes:

will fill in field notes here later; 16gr Unique AND 14.7 both worked fine; I will try next lower bushing on Unique later, and need to chrono that load.


Final Analysis:
Unique gave a good 3/4oz load, no issues noted. Haven't been able to find 8# though so likely will save and use GD. Slightly dirtier than either Green Dot or 20/28 but still not bad.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:44 am 
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Dave, thank you very much for an excellent and thorough work up on these 3/4oz loads in common hulls and with (relatively) common powders. Good back references for deeper reading on the topic. Very well done!

While not as comprehensive as what you have done, I may be able to supplement this with data I have used successfully in SW hulls like the Federal and euro hulls.

These have the advantage of being found in large numbers for free, and a range of common and inexpensive wads that fit this application. I will dig into the notes and post them up later, I just wanted to say thanks for your detailed work summarizing this information.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 10:58 am 
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GREAT thread, I've been loading 13.2 grains of green dot with 5/8oz of #9, great load.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:35 pm 
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I do both 12 and 20 with 3/4; best 20 is either old Win CF or Gun Clubs, pick a regular primers, 15.5 of Universal or Unique, CB green 3/4 wad. I shoot 5-stand, Sporting and FITASC with it. Use slightly tighter chokes like LM/M for FITASC. Works great............

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:59 pm 
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Claybuster also lists load data for their 3/4 oz 20 gauge wad.
http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php ... -cb1075-20

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Thanks for the comments and additional info guys, I was hoping you all would post up with more data-- trying to make a good "clearinghouse" thread for folks. There's so much great info, but it's spread all over; and in reloading, even though I "THINK I read someone post about DRA wads being great for this, somewhere...", you really have to find and reference the post/data before you go load up hulls... and that gets hard after reading several thousand posts.

Some info I've seen before but didn't have time to find and link, and that I hope guys will at least post a link here to the discussions:
-- Downrange wads / Dusters- I think someone posted they were the best wad for this, maybe DLM? Like to get some info on those.
-- "Euro hulls" and Straight Walled- Cerberus hit it up above, these are gaining popularity and easy to find for use; I'm at least a fan of READING all about them, I'd like some tested fit/function/chrono'd info on loads with them posted here for sure. Just a trip to Cabelas for cheap target ammo shows me that Herters (Fiocchi hulls), Fiocchi, Rio, Estate, BP, Kent (Cheddite), are the most likely suspects to be purchased if looking for lowest price.
-- BPI / Gualandi wads and loads. They list a ton, and seem the best place for SW hull info, but it's too much for me to pick a load to try really!
-- Primers: lower cost and available... ched209, FIO616, NS, RIO are all much cheaper right now than W209, Fed209A, and certainly Rem209/STS. Let's face it, 3/4oz loads in 20ga are likely to be used for high volume target use in close-in clays and skeet; it's already most of the way down the road towards "saving $$", I expect anyone loading these up is probably wanting to use the lowest cost decent primer also. Hodgdon and Alliant almost ignore these primers in favor of the twice as expensive Rem209, making it hard to find published domestic hull loads with these primers. A good post on all these primers in some go-to 3/4oz loads would be great. I intended on linking here to some posts on primer subs and issues but didn't get to it.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 10:33 pm 
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This thread has been linked into the TOP THREADS post at the top of the reloading forum.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 6:35 am 
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Curly-Nohair wrote:
This thread has been linked into the TOP THREADS post at the top of the reloading forum.
Thank you sir!


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:23 pm 
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oregunner wrote:
Claybuster also lists load data for their 3/4 oz 20 gauge wad.
http://www.claybusterwads.com/index.php ... -cb1075-20



Except, that when using a chrono, their posted powder drops do NOT get to the speed listed. In both 12 and 20, dropping 1+ grain more got the velocity.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:02 am 
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Win AA CF hulls (old style)
W209 primer
CB 1078-20 wad
13.4 grains Green Dot (bushing E2 PW)
* same as previous Green Dot load but reduced powder to next bushing down

will post chrono and ejection/function results tomorrow


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 8:13 am 
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Hello: I am using Green Dot , Claybuster 3/4oz wad, #8 1/2, Cheddite primers. With 13.2grains I am getting 1180fps AAHS, 1185fps Gun Club, 1170fps STS. With Gun Clubs and 13.5grains Green Dot 3/4oz, Cheddite 1208fps. Gun Clubs, 3/4oz, 14 grains Green Dot, Cheddite primers, I am getting 1248fps. These are all average speeds of 10 shots over the chrono at 900 feet above sea level in a O/U. I really like the 3/4oz Green Dot loads. It seems to burn cleanly and easy on the hulls. Thanks, Eric


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:56 am 
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Dave in AZ wrote:
-- "Euro hulls" and Straight Walled- Cerberus hit it up above, these are gaining popularity and easy to find for use; I'm at least a fan of READING all about them, I'd like some tested fit/function/chrono'd info on loads with them posted here for sure. Just a trip to Cabelas for cheap target ammo shows me that Herters (Fiocchi hulls), Fiocchi, Rio, Estate, BP, Kent (Cheddite), are the most likely suspects to be purchased if looking for lowest price.
-- BPI / Gualandi wads and loads. They list a ton, and seem the best place for SW hull info, but it's too much for me to pick a load to try really!
I'll do what I can to add to this part of the thread. Dave's opening was so impressive that this may be just some filler, but it should help fill some gaps with loads that have worked well for me. FYI, none of these have been chrono'd. My old Oehler 33 doesn't do so well with shotgun loads (despite Dr. Ken's best intentions) so until the new Pro Chrono arrives everything here is book numbers. Most of it is from BPI and their numbers are pretty close to reality.

First, hulls. The SW hulls start with more capacity that tapered, and we are using a lighter than normal shot charge, so component selection is critical to good fit and crimps. The common SW hulls vary greatly in length between brands, and that directly affects capacity. Rio's/Suprema are by far the longest, and the highest capacity 2.75" 20 gauge hulls I have ever seen. Recent Nobel Sport hulls now match that length.

In descending order, longest to shortest, here are my rankings:
Rio/Suprema/Nobel Sport - 2.710-.715"
Cheddite/Herters - 2.70"
Federal Top Gun/Estate - 2.660"
I didn't have any Fiocchi to measure, maybe someone else can help with that.

All of these hull will work well with the right component stack. For most people the Federals will be the easiest hull to find but all types are worth picking up. My area is littered with Rio, Nobel and Federal and I use them all. Federals use standard US primers, the imports all want the euro-size primer.

Wads: Wad selection is probably the next most critical piece. In SW hull of all lengths I have had my best and easiest results using the Gualandi SG-20M from Ballistic Products. These are beautifully engineered wads and while more expensive than clones, are downright cheap when BPI has them on sale. Once one realizes how versatile these are you will get a bunch next time they go on sale, which is now: SG20-M

At $4.55/250 or $79.80/5000 they are as cheap as clones, and a far better wad.

Nominally a 7/8oz wad, it is built with a short shot cup and a tubular cushion section that allows a good deal of flexibility in getting a load to fit. It also has tabs molded into the gas cup that help it sit up on the powder, an important consideration with these light loads.

I have also used the SG20-L very successfully. It is rated for 3/4oz loads but some users report it is too long for the shorter Federal hulls. This one is a better pick if you want to load the Nobel or Rio hulls. It too has spikes molded into the gas cup for more flexibility on powder choice and wad seating depth.

All loads were constructed starting with ZERO wad pressure, adding pressure only as needed. The SG's are self adjusting so I just used zero pressure and let the closing crimp seat the wad.

Image

As an aside, both of these wads are also good for 3/4 in tapered hulls, but that's another topic.

Powders: No surprises here, bulkier powders work better at filling up these hulls. The gold standard in my book is Green Dot, followed by Unique. These flake powders have the proper burn rate and the bulk needed for good fit and ballistics. Honorable mention goes to CSB-1 as a replacement for Green Dot, but with the supply dried up it's only worth knowing if you have it. I use it grain for grain with Green Dot data and get good results and excellent fit.

Other powders like International and Universal will work in place of Green Dot and Unique, respectively, but International especially does not offer the bulk of Green Dot.

One last, but very careful mention, goes to Red Dot/Promo. I have safe published data with these in Federal hulls and 7/8oz loads so I am comfortable with them in 3/4oz as well. There is very good application for these in 3/4oz loads but it comes with some significant warnings. Use your judgment, but if you have Red Dot or Promo on hand these are a good option for some guns. They should not be used in tubed guns and the lighter loads will not cycle my gas guns, but they do make excellent low-recoil loads for pumps and break-open 20 gauge guns.

There are some good threads on SGW about this, one of the best is here: UPDATED 20 ga. Promo Lite recipe/warnings. READ IT!

Keep in mind this was worked up in tapered hulls, so there is a little more leeway in SW hulls. The maximum charge I have listed on my published Lyman data is 14.0 grains in Federal hulls with 7/8oz shot and pressures are low. Velocities in the 1100-1200 range. I would not exceed that charge in any load, but I feel this is about the top charge you would want for 3/4oz anyway. These 3/4oz 14.0/Promo will gently but reliably cycle all my gas guns.

Here are some others on the topic:
Case's Light 20 gauge load in subgauge tubes?


Promo in 12ga lite loads? Includes comments on Promo in the 20 gauge

There is also good published data for 700X in SW hulls at 7/8oz and with the recent availability of 700X it could also be an option for some of us. I have not tried it yet but it is on the planning board, so I won't post the data here until I try it.

Anyone who would like to see the Lyman Red Dot and 700X data, please PM with an email and I'll send the pages to you.

Now, for what has been working easiest for me. Note these are all listed in the data as 7/8oz loads. I dropped a weighed 328-330 grains of shot, regardless of size, and get good fit and results. Velocities may be slightly higher due to the lighter shot charge, but will be close, I have given the upper and lower range of charges so you can pick depending one what speed you want. If you'd like to see the data sheets the SG20M is here:http://www.ballisticproducts.com/images/ld20sg20M.pdf

Hull: Federal Top Gun/Cheddite
Wad: SG-20M
Primer: Win209/NS209 (Cheddite)
Powder: Green Dot
Chg. Wt.: 13.5-18.0
Velocity: 1145 (14.0grs) -1300 (18.0grs)

Hull: Rio/Suprema/Nobel Sport
Wad: SG-20M
Primer: NS209
Powder: Green Dot
Chg. Wt.: 14.0-17.0
Velocity: 1145 (15.0grs) -1230 (17.0grs)

Hull: Federal Top Gun/Cheddite
Wad: SG-20M
Primer: Win209/NS209 (Cheddite)
Powder: Unique*
Chg. Wt.: 18.0-22.0 Velocity: 1215 (18.0grs)-1390 (22.0grs)
*I have run Unique as light as 14.0-15.0 in Federal hulls and at that level it will cycle my Mossberg SA-20 perfectly. It will not cycle my Remington 1100 LT-20, that gun needs 16.0 for reliable function. A sweet load in any non-self loading gun.

Hull: Rio/Suprema/Nobel Sport
Wad: SG-20M
Primer: NS209
Powder: Universal Clays
Chg. Wt.: 18.0-19.5
Velocity: 1250 (18.0grs) -1355 (19.5grs)

Hull: Cheddite (could use Rio or Nobel, this is a tight fit in Federals)
Wad: SG-20L
Primer: NS209
Powder: Green Dot
Chg. Wt.: 16.5
Velocity: 1350

Hull: Cheddite (could use Rio or Nobel, this is a tight fit in Federals)
Wad: SG-20L
Primer: NS209
Powder: Green Dot
Chg. Wt.: 16.5
Velocity: 1350

Hull: Cheddite
Wad: SG-20L
Primer: CH209/NS209
Powder: Universal Clays
Chg. Wt.: 21.1
Velocity: 1550

Hull: Cheddite
Wad: SG-20L
Primer: Fed 209A or Win 209
Powder: Universal Clays
Chg. Wt.: 21.0
Velocity: 1460

As much as I love the PT-series wads I have found only one that gives good fit in 3/4 oz loads, the PT2094: PT2094 (VP94) 20ga 7/8 - 1oz lead wad

Image

Hull: Rio in the data (but fits better in shorter hulls, perfect in Federal)
Wad: PT2094
Primer: Rio209/NS209
Powder: Universal Clays
Chg. Wt.: 19.0-20.0-21.0
Velocity: 1335-1385-1430

You will notice that many of these lighter loads are much faster than what you may be used to shooting. For simple skeet they may be too much for some, but for sporting clays or game they are really wicked, punching far above their weight. I use nickel plated 8's with these for doves and any decently hit bird is DITA, even when the ranges get a little long.

Hope this helps, and I should have chrono data on some of these in a couple weeks, but this should be a good start. If anyone want to try these and can beat me to the chrono numbers, please do.


Last edited by Cerberus on Sat May 09, 2015 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 6:04 pm 
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Posts: 666
Outstanding post Cerberus, thanks! I picked up 75 empty Fed Top Gun hulls at range today, so will give some of these a try. Your comments on fit and experience give me enough info to purchase some of these wads (SG20M I think) and give it a go!

Aircooledracer, thanks for that good Green Dot data, I didn't have any Rem hulls (until I shot some GC today), so your post really fills in nicely for the Gun Clubs.

Here's the chrono data I got today:
Win AA CF hulls (old style), 3/4oz (321-328gr) #9 lead shot
W209 primer
CB 1078-20 wad
13.4 grains Green Dot (bushing E2 PW)
* same as previous Green Dot load but reduced powder to next bushing down
Crimps .055-.060 depth

- String of 5 shots each chronographed; 5' from end of muzzle; F1 Chrony; sunny day 75F 1026'msl
- Winchester SX-3 Field, Compact 24" barrel, semi auto.
Avg 1222 fps. Extreme Spread 32.7, SD 12.08 (1221, 1223, 1240, 1209, 1216). 4'-8' ejection.

In all my 3/4oz loads so far, the Win AA CF hulls have been "fastest", then AA HS about 25fps slower, then Win Super Target/Universal hulls about 20fps below that, so I exect AAHS with this load would be 1200fps in my gun.

Shot a box of 25 after that, all ejections at 4-8', all functions positive and no issues cycling WinSX3 semi auto. Patterned load at 25 yards, very well distributed pattern. Broke skeet well at normal ranges; moved back to 35yds at sta 4, not as well... could have been me, was trying to simulate crossing doves at range ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 6:28 pm 
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I chronoed. My 5/8 9shot, 3/4 claybuster win 209,AA hull @ 1310, and STS @ 1350....


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:00 pm 
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dogknott wrote:
I chronoed. My 5/8 9shot, 3/4 claybuster win 209,AA hull @ 1310, and STS @ 1350....
Nice speeds on that, just where I like my light loads. I don't have that wad but might make up a box or two with the CB 7/8 wad and fillers.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 7:06 pm 
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This thread makes me want to emphasize the great utility of the Universal Charge Bar. I know some people have a beef with them, and some just prefer bushings, and that's fine.

My experience with specialized loads, and these 3/4oz 20's certainly qualify, is how helpful it is to be able to dial in your shot and powder drops to exactly what you want or need. The UCB lets me do just that, is easy to use and doesn't drift once set.

Every other loading system I use has an adjustable powder measure system, I don't know what took me so long to get the UCB for my MEC Grabber. I am adding them to my 12 & 20 gauge 600's and I don't see myself ever taking them off.




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