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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:33 pm 
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Cerberus wrote:
This thread makes me want to emphasize the great utility of the Universal Charge Bar. I know some people have a beef with them, and some just prefer bushings, and that's fine.

My experience with specialized loads, and these 3/4oz 20's certainly qualify, is how helpful it is to be able to dial in your shot and powder drops to exactly what you want or need. The UCB lets me do just that, is easy to use and doesn't drift once set.

Every other loading system I use has an adjustable powder measure system, I don't know what took me so long to get the UCB for my MEC Grabber. I am adding them to my 12 & 20 gauge 600's and I don't see myself ever taking them off.

That is a pretty strong recommendation. Are you able to dial in a fractional powder drop, like say - 14.8 gr and the UCB will drop 14.8 gr every cycle of the press? I know that is what you said, it is just at variance with what others have posted about their experience with the UCB.

Not challenging. Just asking, 'cause I read some threads that really hated the UCB. It seems that the threads were hating on the UCB drifting from a particular setting. I would love to have the flexibility to dial in a particular powder drop instead of having to get a powder bushing, manually weigh its drop and then have to break out the emery cloth to enlarge it until it was dropping the desired weight.



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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:52 pm 
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aBrowningfan wrote:
Cerberus wrote:
This thread makes me want to emphasize the great utility of the Universal Charge Bar. I know some people have a beef with them, and some just prefer bushings, and that's fine.

My experience with specialized loads, and these 3/4oz 20's certainly qualify, is how helpful it is to be able to dial in your shot and powder drops to exactly what you want or need. The UCB lets me do just that, is easy to use and doesn't drift once set.

Every other loading system I use has an adjustable powder measure system, I don't know what took me so long to get the UCB for my MEC Grabber. I am adding them to my 12 & 20 gauge 600's and I don't see myself ever taking them off.

That is a pretty strong recommendation. Are you able to dial in a fractional powder drop, like say - 14.8 gr and the UCB will drop 14.8 gr every cycle of the press? I know that is what you said, it is just at variance with what others have posted about their experience with the UCB.
Within reason, yes. If I was set for 14.8 and working the machine consistently, and the powder meters well, I would except every drop to be within .2 +/-, a tenth on either side. Even coarser powders will drop close to that standard.

aBrowningfan wrote:
Not challenging. Just asking, 'cause I read some threads that really hated the UCB. It seems that the threads were hating on the UCB drifting from a particular setting. I would love to have the flexibility to dial in a particular powder drop instead of having to get a powder bushing, manually weigh its drop and then have to break out the emery cloth to enlarge it until it was dropping the desired weight.
Each of the adjustment knobs has a set screw that compresses a small plastic plug against the threads. My knobs are fairly stiff to turn with the screws loose for adjustment. When set and locked down I cannot see how the settings could drift.

After using this specific bar for a while now, and my experience with similar systems like the Dillon, which does not use set screws to lock the setting, I would blame most complaints on operator error or bad technique.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:09 am 
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^^^Thanks for the explanation. I may be investing in a UCB. {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:33 am 
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I've got a UCB on my Mec Sizemaster for 28ga.
Unfortunately, my PW375 uses only bushings for 20 ga. Wish there was some adjustable bushing for PW, just a normal one where the sidewall moved in with set screws would work...hmm...

And yes... since I only reload for hunting in 16ga, my Lee LoadAll II bushings are it. But MAN they gave me a ton of those plastic bushings! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:32 am 
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Hello: I am loading on Dillon presses for metallic and shotgun. The adjustable powder drop stays in adjustment even after 10's of thousands of reloads on my metallic presses. The shotgun loader uses the same powder drop. I have a Spolar now and I am waiting on some parts for my used machine that are missing. I am going to make an adjustable charge bar setup for it but keep the bushing for the shot side. Should be a fun project on my Bridgeport. If I had a MEC I would buy the adjustable charge bar. It would make life so much easier. Thanks, Eric


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:33 pm 
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Location: Iowa
Cerberus wrote:
dogknott wrote:
I chronoed. My 5/8 9shot, 3/4 claybuster win 209,AA hull @ 1310, and STS @ 1350....
Nice speeds on that, just where I like my light loads. I don't have that wad but might make up a box or two with the CB 7/8 wad and fillers.


I forgot to add, I got those speeds with 13.2 grains of green dot...


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:02 pm 
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I finally got some Remington Gun Club hulls and loaded up some 3/4oz Green Dot loads, basically the same as Eric's above, and chronographed.
SOURCE: This is the Alliant recipe:
Rem Gun Club hulls, 20ga; 3/4oz #9 shot
Wad CB 1075-20
Primer cheddite 209
powder: Green Dot
grains --- fps ------ psi
12.4 ---1150 -----8600
13.3 ---1200 -----9600
14.2 ---1250 -----11200

My load was:
13.4 gr Green Dot (E2 bushing for me on PW)
Results: Chrony F1, sunny day 95F, 1030 MSL, 5ft from muzzle. Win SX3 Compact 20ga 26" barrel, imp cyl invector + choke. 5 shot string, all thrown from PW 375.
1183, 1215, 1180, 1185, 1197 fps
Avg 1192 fps, extreme spread 34.9 standard dev 14.38
10.5ft ejection, all shots light recoil and positive function on gun. Went on to shoot 2 boxes, all results similar.

I really liked the Rem hulls with this 3/4oz load.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 10:29 am 
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This is a good thread. Way back when, I had issues trying to load 7/8 in AA hulls so I shifted to 3/4 oz for them, and I also found that Remington 20's loaded 7/8 oz easy.

What I've finally settled with in reloading 20 gauge (prefer 20/28 powder), is that I load the AA's in 3/4 oz and #9's for skeet and short range sporting shots, and load the Remington 20's with 7/8 oz and #8's for longer sporting shots.

On the clays range I can carry both types in my pocket and know which one to use for each shot. Either version works ok for me on the skeet field too.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:37 pm 
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Digging up an old thread !? But I've been loading 3/4oz 20s for a few months now useing the tested promo load here in sgw and its worked great ...only 12.2gn promo 1200-1210fps 11000psi ched 209.. old style AA or rem hulls I get dished crimps with the cb1075-20 (green) wad but that's because the very low volume of powder ...with promo the AAhs hull is actually ideal due to the lower capacity which most people don't like. Once I'm out of promo il go to green dot which is easier to get these days here in NY

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:16 pm 
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Great! I'll have to
Try that promo load myself.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:50 pm 
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DuckManEvs wrote:
Digging up an old thread !? But I've been loading 3/4oz 20s for a few months now useing the tested promo load here in sgw and its worked great ...only 12.2gn promo 1200-1210fps 11000psi ched 209.. old style AA or rem hulls I get dished crimps with the cb1075-20 (green) wad but that's because the very low volume of powder ...with promo the AAhs hull is actually ideal due to the lower capacity which most people don't like. Once I'm out of promo il go to green dot which is easier to get these days here in NY
I just ran through 50 of these tonight in my new Yildiz 20. I loaded them up in Winchester Super Speed (Universal) hulls, used the bare minimum of crimp to get a factory looking crimp, and all shot well with no issues, either with the hull or bloopers.

In the light SPZME20 they still have more recoil than I imagined. Probably because at 12.0/Promo they are running as fast as my Green Dot/CSB-1 loads with the same weight shot.

They are much softer in my heavier Mossberg pump but they will not cycle either of the SA-20's or the 1100 LT-20.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:36 pm 
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That makes since it will not cycle with promo since its a fast spike in pressure ...I loaded 3/4 oz 20s a few yeArs ago with super field powder and it cycled my girl friends youth 11-87 perfectly but I would suggest sticking to a double or pump with the lite promo load ...it's great I do notice the recoil is stiffer than expected but still less than factory 7/8oz but a simple primer swap of a fio or remington drops the pressure and recoil substantially

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:42 pm 
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I didn't expect it to cycle the autos. The first time I tried this load it was at 11.0/Promo and it was much softer but would barely nudge the bolt on the Mossberg.

I went to 12.0/Promo as my standard for this load and I made them up this time jet to try in the little 20 O/U. I would drop to 11.0 again or less shot but I don't think the gain would be worth the trouble. In fairness the CB1075-20 didn't exist when I made the lighter load. It might work better at 11.0 grains with the new wad and maybe Red Dot instead of the denser Promo.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:09 pm 
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Anyone else use Winchester Super Handicap in their 20 gauge 3/4 ounce loads? I typically used Unique or International in Remington hulls and CB1075-20 wads. During the powder availability over the last year I picked up a pound of WSH and found it works very well in the AAHS hull with the same wad. It's a fairly dense powder so the small capacity of the AAHS hull makes for a nice fit. I've also tried it with the Remington hulls but the crimp is just slightly dished, not enough to be of concern, however. For the AAHS hull this seems to be the best solution for 3/4 ounce loads for me.


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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:41 pm 
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Since I started reloading 7/8 oz. 12 gauge I decided to download 20 gauge to 3/4 oz. I recently scored 8 pounds of American Select powder and found it is one of the few powders that can be used for both 12 and 20 gauge. I've been using 19-20 grains of it in the 12 gauge and around 13 grains in the 20 gauge (I'm at work and my reloading data is at home, thus, don't have the exact drops). Both gauges are with Remington hulls, Win primers and CB wads.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:14 pm 
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Red dot/promo is the best powder I have tried for 20ga 3/4oz or less ...it's not an intended 20ga powder but it works and works very well if you are safe and use a scale it's a max pressure load tested @11000psi with 12.4gn promo max!!! and 3/4 of shot max!!! 1200-1210fps No magnum primers nothing hotter than a ched 209 or use a fio primer to be safe

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:56 pm 
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Dave in AZ wrote:
Thanks for the comments and additional info guys, I was hoping you all would post up with more data-- trying to make a good "clearinghouse" thread for folks. There's so much great info, but it's spread all over; and in reloading, even though I "THINK I read someone post about DRA wads being great for this, somewhere...", you really have to find and reference the post/data before you go load up hulls... and that gets hard after reading several thousand posts.

Some info I've seen before but didn't have time to find and link, and that I hope guys will at least post a link here to the discussions:
-- Downrange wads / Dusters- I think someone posted they were the best wad for this, maybe DLM? Like to get some info on those.
-- "Euro hulls" and Straight Walled- Cerberus hit it up above, these are gaining popularity and easy to find for use; I'm at least a fan of READING all about them, I'd like some tested fit/function/chrono'd info on loads with them posted here for sure. Just a trip to Cabelas for cheap target ammo shows me that Herters (Fiocchi hulls), Fiocchi, Rio, Estate, BP, Kent (Cheddite), are the most likely suspects to be purchased if looking for lowest price.
-- BPI / Gualandi wads and loads. They list a ton, and seem the best place for SW hull info, but it's too much for me to pick a load to try really!
-- Primers: lower cost and available... ched209, FIO616, NS, RIO are all much cheaper right now than W209, Fed209A, and certainly Rem209/STS. Let's face it, 3/4oz loads in 20ga are likely to be used for high volume target use in close-in clays and skeet; it's already most of the way down the road towards "saving $$", I expect anyone loading these up is probably wanting to use the lowest cost decent primer also. Hodgdon and Alliant almost ignore these primers in favor of the twice as expensive Rem209, making it hard to find published domestic hull loads with these primers. A good post on all these primers in some go-to 3/4oz loads would be great. I intended on linking here to some posts on primer subs and issues but didn't get to it.


I haven't shot any 20 gauge Herters shells yet, still working through my 20 ga Rio shells. So I have a question for you, are 20 gauge Herters shells using Fiocchi hulls? All the 12 & 16's I have shot and reloaded are Cheddite hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:59 am 
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They are cheddite hulls, but they are worse quality "cheddites" from what I have seen. The metal head is very thin, and I with factory 7/8oz target Herters loads from Cabelas, I have about 95% of the metal heads "extrude" themselves in a significant bump into the groove in the boltface. I have had this happen on no other shell, and I shoot 2-3 boxes a week of various sorts.

Again, the gun will fire a box perfectly before the herters, and a box fine after with no extrusions, but all the herters themselves will have headstamp extrusion. Wierd. I have personally decided that I will not reload these, too risky.

Here's a pic, of the herter's extrusion and quite often the thing extrudes enough to rupture:
Image


Last edited by Dave in AZ on Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:11 am 
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Win. AA hull, CB 20ga. 3/4 oz. (green) wad, 14.0 Green Dot, W 209. Perfect crimp with PW press.


Last edited by woodward on Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The 20 gauge 3/4 oz Thread of Justice
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:01 am 
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You left out the primer. I use Win 209s with that same load in both AA-HS and Rem hulls and LOVE it. No press adjustments, either. Beautiful looking crimps, and they break clays well, too!



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