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 Post subject: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:33 am 
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I know there are quite a few PW gurus around & I'm sure they have a slew of tips and tricks on set-up and modifications. Even if you aren't a proclaimed Guru, if you have found something helpful, post it.

For example -
Mill/Turn a hole in your shell seating post and fit a magnet in to eliminate hull wobble during seating/resizing...

Slightly chamfer and polish the bottom of your resizing dies to reduce hull mouths getting snagged during seating/resizing.

Don't allow primers to run dry more than 1/2 way down the primer track, gravity feed will become unreliable past this point.

Etc...

Post your tips & tricks or include a hot link to any relevant articles written.




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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 10:30 am 
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Location: Missoula, MT
I've done several things with mine. The magnet in the .410 seating post is the only thing I'd consider as an absolute 'must do'

The next thing I'd put very high on the list is to work on the very fine ball powder migration problem. I recut the o-ring groove in the hopper base plate deep enough to add a nylon washer to the o-ring. Essentially the o-ring acts as a spring now to keep the nylon washer seated on the powder gear. I also epoxied my .410 powder bushing into a separate powder gear and flattened the face so there is no step or lip for the powder to drag on, that might be overkill.

I was having problems with AAHS 28 gauge wads - from the factory the wads come squashed, the pw does not like wad petals leaning inward. I replaced my 28 gauge wad ram with a 20 gauge wad ram turned down slightly. I set the diameter of the wad ram to be a fairly close fit with the wad petals pushed against the hull. That worked quite well with the AAHS wads. Totally un-necessary with claybuster wads. The 15 minutes on high in the clothes dryer trick helped with the AAHS wads, but the wad ram was cheap insurance.

There are lots of little things that help - make sure you have a cleaning brush or swab on the hull insertion station. I've found this to being pretty much critical on the .410, less so on larger gauges.

Make sure you don't have the rack gear nylon guide screws too tight or too loose. Either is bad. They are not difficult to set, but they do need to be correct.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:45 am
Posts: 25
man I was thinking about getting a 800+ to load 410 and 28ga. but now hearing about all
these small mods that need to be done to make these machines load reliable is making me think this over again. Are you guys loading with a 800+ is there any other issues with
this machine?


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Location: Missoula, MT
IMO The biggest problem with the PW is that they are built stout, really stout. Which results in machines still being used after nearly 40 years of age (i.e. the 800b and 800c machines). After 35-40 years bubba has had all kinds of time to screw one up. I was given a 950 that someone had so fouled up you literally could not load a shell on it. It took me about 4 hrs to take it apart, clean it, re-adjust from scratch, figure out what they had done wrong, and it's now fully operational - in fact I converted it to a dedicated .410 machine.

If you're buying a new machine their isn't all that much you really need to do. As noted above, a small magnet in the seating post helps a lot on the .410. I've never seen it needed on 28, 20, or 12. The work around on the .410 is to stuff the hull up into the die instead of setting it on the seating post. The downside to this is that if you stuff the hull up into the die, then you can't use the bore brush or mop. I believe the die cleaning brush or mop is important on the .410. For the seating stem mod I use a 8mm dia x 3 mm thick neodymium magnet set just below flush on the seating steam - they come in 10 packs for a couple bucks at the hardware store. The magnet has enough attraction to the steel in a primer to stop the hull from wobbling on the seating post. If the hull has any lean or wobble, the hull mouth will catch on the die and you crunch a hull.

I started loading .410 using WC820 mil pull down powder. It is an extremely fine grained powder that is difficult to keep from migrating around bushings, wads, or anything else. A fairly simple mod to the hopper plate and I can load all day with '0' leakage. I'm using W296 now, and have no leakage issues at all.

If you buy a new one and follow the PW instructions on setting it up and understand them, you should be good to go. If you pull the thing out of the box, assemble it, and try to start loading without setting it up properly you're in for a world of grief.

I slow down a little when loading .410. loading 20, 28, or 12, I load at a rate of about 12 minutes per 100. .410 maybe 15 minutes per hundred. I've found that a slight pause to allow the knockout punch to fully seat on the die, as well as using the die cleaning brush or mop, makes a big difference in trouble free loading. When you try to rush it, it can turn into a train wreck.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:06 pm
Posts: 3691
Right on John H,with the neo magnets mod,I did the same thing on my P/W shell feeder post.I used a 1/4 x 1/4 neodymium magnet 3lb pull,the 2lb pull is not enough,IMHO and set it 2/16" bellow the face of the shell seating post.This allows for a slightly backed out primer,to not tilt the shell,when being inserted.All brass based shells can be the most problem causers, as there is no magnetic pickup
material,other than the metal anvil in the shell.


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: colorado
I run a lot of 28ga shells on a 800+. I found the magnet was crucial for care free runs. If I got too quick without it the hull rocks and then gets crushed by the sizer.
I also changed out the pre crimp to the plastic one. I consistently got bad crimps with the metal one. After those changes my only issue is an occasional petal that gets into the drop tube. Pw suggests putting the wads in a pillow case and then the dryer to straighten them out. Pw makes a 410 drop tube that fits over the shell instead on inside. Something like that for the 28 would be ideal.
Even with these issues, I have fewer problems than when I ran my grabber.

To do it again I would probably step up to a spolar, but it's almost twice the money.


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:08 am 
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USMCThaxton86 wrote:
I know there are quite a few PW gurus around & I'm sure they have a slew of tips and tricks on set-up and modifications. Even if you aren't a proclaimed Guru, if you have found something helpful, post it.

For example -
Mill/Turn a hole in your shell seating post and fit a magnet in to eliminate hull wobble during seating/resizing...

Slightly chamfer and polish the bottom of your resizing dies to reduce hull mouths getting snagged during seating/resizing.

Don't allow primers to run dry more than 1/2 way down the primer track, gravity feed will become unreliable past this point.

Etc...

Post your tips & tricks or include a hot link to any relevant articles written.


The magnet is for the 410, and if you have the machine bolted down to something solid, will not run into 28 gauge hull wobble.

You only want to polish the insides of the hulls, and slightly chamfer the top edge of the sizers so the hull will not get hung up as the ejector tool is pressing them out. Hence leave the bottom sizing ID rings alone the sizers, since they already come polished.


If you set the primer chute to the side of the primer assembly correctly (and even go in and do the light polishing on the side and bottom lip of the of the U slot on the side of the primer assembly for the chute, and end folds of the chute), the assembly works fine even when you get down to a few primers still in the chute.

As for checking the chute to side of primer assembly, handle down with the primer tray empty so the primer feed ram is forward, install just one primer into the chute, and drop it against the side of the primer feed from a few inches up the chute. If everything is golden, the primer should smack the side of the primer feed rod as is quickly slides down the chute and into the u slot of the primer assembly, and bounce back up the chute a good inch before it comes back down again and seats tight against the primer feed rod again.

As for hang ups of the primer out of the tray to the chute, easy to adjust as well. Start with the feed ramps in the tray to get them right so only a single primer will flow downwards on the min slop side, then tweak the top entry chute tabs so the primer does a roll over on the edge and down the chute.
Now, when you are tweaking the bottom primer chute in the tray, break out a small jewelers file and debur the top of the bottom end lip of the tray. The trays are stamp cut, and you can end up with a stamp cut bur on the end of the tray section just before the chute that will not allow a primer to roll over into the chute entry correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1192
John, can you tell what type of PW press you're discussing? (And for others, that's always helpful!)
I'd like to hear more on the "cleaning brush or swab on hull insertion station"-- how do you hook it up there and what is the purpose of that, what's it solving?

I've got a 20ga/12ga PW375C. My 12ga dies are not "C" taper crimp, but old style, and I may buy a new set to replace them as I haven't yet found a 12ga seating post, wad screw-in ring, or old-style sizing die.

For 20ga tips, the main issue I've found is the difference in height between Win AA HS hulls (shorter), and pretty much everything else. Win CF hulls are about the same as Rem GC hulls, just a bit longer than the HS; and the Win Super Target ("universal") hulls are longer still. Because of this, the crimps don't work out well for all with the same settings.

I've found that if I set the PW375C up for the longest hull in a good crimp without a central hole or any swirl, then I can also load a the shorter old Win AA CF and Rem GC, and even shorter HS, by making small adjustments and using small washers stuffed up inside the die receiving holes instead of actually changing the dies themselves. This makes it much faster to swap out between hulls. Washers I use just stack on top of the die with a bit smaller diameter so they fit up the holes dies go into. MOST of the adjustment can be done with the precrimp die and the wad seating pressure die.
WW AAHS: (dies are the most extended)
precrimp-- 4 washers; wad seating depth-- 3 washers; final crimp-- 3 washers

WW AA CF and Rem GC: (dies are the halfway retracted)
precrimp-- 2 washers; wad seating depth-- 1 washers; final crimp-- 1 washers

WW AA Super Target "universal": (dies are the fully retracted)
precrimp-- 0 washers; wad seating depth-- 0 washers; final crimp-- 0 washers

The best solution would be for PW (or you) to tap the top of those 3 dies for a screw to be threaded in there, and chamfer out the top of the die so screw can be fully retracted below normal die head. THAT way you could just have a certain number of screw turns for each die to be set for your various hulls.

The only other setting really is the final crimp station where you can set the amount of camming to give depth of the crimp and the spring pressure to give final taper--but once you get it set for one 20ga, it's almost perfect for everything so long as you move the whole she-bang up and down to account for various hull lengths. I've called PW to talk to the guy there about doing this as an idea, but he didn't seem very interested in hearing about quality-improvements from users in the field... Don't know why he'd provide that exact setup for the hull-seating post and the primer depth (SUPER easy to make and replicate!), then force you to randomly hold the pre-crimp to some spot with one hand while you screw in allen bolts; and mess around with wrenches on nuts inside springs on the final crimp...all while you try to one-hand a caliper to measure extended die length off some jacked up points! I like my PW, but sorry--those settings are terrible to make repeatably!


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:11 pm 
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Back in gauge tool changing days on the presses, O rings on the pre crimper top end was a good way to save the pre crimper setting of what it needed to be set to for when pulled from the machine and reinstalled blindly later. Just mark some line on the top post against the bottom of the tool head, then find some O rings that will stack up to the needed shim depth for that load.

As for the brush/Mop, it gets installed above the hull insertion station on the progressive presses. The hull gets knocked out on the ejection station, and as the machine cycles the sizer to the hull insertion station and the cross plate is in the up position, the sizer gets cleaned via it. This would work on a 375 as well, but just have to take the sizer back to the insertion station before you handle down again.

In regards to the non taper to taper crimping tool set on the 375, you can pull that off for about half the price by converting the B tool set you have (if you have access to a lathe). The sizer needs to be shorted, the entire crimper tool has to be replaced to a C type crimper, and on the hull knock out tool, your just needs to be turned the thick B post down to accept the spring, knock out cup, and the bottom button with bolt of the C unit.

As for 375 verses an Progressive machine, really a total different world there. On the progressive machines, you pretty much set them up and run pallet of the same hull/load through the machine with it set to that setting (around 2 flats a hour about the norm on the progressive machines). With the 375, was designed for shooters that will be loading a whole lot of short run/low count different type of loads through the machine instead (couple boxes a hour instead). But the cool part on the 375, the tool head accepts two different sets of tools that can be preset in the tool head.


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:28 pm
Posts: 5658
Location: Missoula, MT
My machines are both progressives, a 950 (now modified into something close to a .410 bore PW 2000) and an 800+. The 800+ comes from the factory with a threaded spot for a bore mop. You need to buy a PW adaptor (or make one) - the hole on the underside of the toolhead is threaded for 5/16 - 27 which is typical for shotgun cleaning bore mops / brushes. But you need an adaptor to get the mop/brush down far enough to get the whole die. The pw one is just a knurled brass rod about 2" long threaded w/ 5/16 -27 male threads on one end and female threads on the other.

The older 800's, and 900's don't have the threaded hole in the tool head. So you have to invent an adaptor to carry the bore brush/adaptor. Dano523 has pics of his around here somewhere, mine is similar. I took a piece of steel flat bar and tapped a 5/6-27 threaded hole on one end for the PW style adaptor, and found a convenient cap screw on the bottom of the tool head and used it to mount the adaptor for the adaptor.

By keeping the .410 dies clean, and a drop of clp on the bore mop, the .410 hulls eject from the dies much easier. Which makes them much less prone to mushrooming over the top of the shell holder dies.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:11 pm
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Location: Fredericksburg, Va
John, do you have any leads on the nylon washer you are using on the bottom of your hopper for fine powders? My factory o-ring seems to be glued in?!

Powder migration with H110 isn't horrible at the moment, but it could definitely be reduced...

Will adding the washer have much effect if I don't surface my gear and powder bushing?


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:16 am 
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Location: Missoula, MT
My nylon washer was pretty high tech. Found a nylon fender washer at the hardware store that had plenty of ouside diameter and about 1/8" thick. Put a bolt through it and put a nut and washer on it and chucked it in a drill press. Ran it against a file until it was a snug fit in the recess the o-ring seats in.

The o-rings are glued in with a couple drops of superglue. You have to do this or the o-ring turns into a figure 8 up inside the hopper. This results in remarkably inconsistent powder drops.

I took out the o-ring, machined the groove 1/8" deeper, glued the o-ring back in, and then the washer. dano523 made a brass insert instead of the washer. I'd have done that but didn't have a lathe at the time.

As far as I know as long as your powder gear and bushing are pretty close they should be fine. Take the gear out and put it on a flat surface, put in your bushing. The less step the better. If you have to flaten it, I used a piece of sandpaper on a piece of plate glass and worked the gear and bushing down until they were dead flush. I was using wc820 which is even finer than h110. It would pile up under the curve of the o-ring and grind away. It was horrible.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:28 am 
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PW mods for 410,
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=359718

To add, one of these days, I should get around to making a few of these up for the lads without a lathes.
Image

Metal insert seal dimensions for those with lathes,
Note, .781",.512, and .714 dimensions are not holds. since all the hopper plate are slightly different each in these dimensions. So measure your hopper plate to figure out what is needed instead (.001 smaller than the hopper plate channel). I mention this, since the first one I made for one on of the OP here with out his hopper plate in hand, it had to be worked before it fit. On other ones made for op's when I had free time to mod there tool sets as well, had them send me the hopper plate so I made them for the dimensions on the hopper plate instead.
Image


Last edited by Dano523 on Fri May 29, 2015 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:11 am 
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Location: Missoula, MT
Dano, Is it possible to turn the die cylinder on a 900? My .410 converted 950 looks like the entire die carrier should be turned a very small amount ccw. Mine has the aluminum L block under the crosshead with the spring loaded detent ball. Unless the die carrier is 2 pieces I don't see how it can be adjusted. It indexes fine, no slop or drag, it's just ever so slightly out of alignment.

I believe I can reset the left post to tune the wad carrier and the remaining misalignment will be tolerable.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:57 am 
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John, the answer is yes, but will take a little work.

Is the problem the center rod with slot is not correctly indexed to the tool head, or the problem the bottom L ball to cylinder bottom detent the problem instead?

Hence if you pull the indexer ball on the side of the index collar (#78) to allow the cylinder to free wheel from the center slot (or just pull the collar up so its no long is locked to the cylinder), does the cylinder indent ball (90) into cylinder bottom detent, position/ index the cylinder correctly to start with?

With luck, it just the center rod to tool head, since that is easy to re-time instead (two set screws and a roll pin).
http://swsupply.com/downloads/900-950_Manual.pdf


Last edited by Dano523 on Sat May 30, 2015 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:01 pm 
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I don't get any shift in the die cylinder if I put it in neutral. I pulled the set screws on the center shaft, have not been able to budge the roll pin.

Eta: roll pin out. I think the aluminum l bracket is limiting how much I can turn the die cylinder. I can get about 1/2 of the problem adjusted out. I have not removed the L bracket.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 3:53 am 
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Double check, but the L bracket (105) should be coming up through the cross plate via a slot in the cross plate, and the spring and detent ball is in a channel of the L bracket itself for the cylinder neutral indexing positions (read L block or at least it spring and ball channel in it is now just a too far back towards the back of the cross plate)..

So on that note, either new L bracket piece, or just oblong the L bracket through bolting channels side to side for bolts 106 slightly towards the back of the machine so you can pull the L bracket slightly forwards as needed as you are tightening up the L bracket bolts to bottom of the cross plate; to adjust the cylinder neutral positions against the tool head (will neutral position the cylinder more CCW as needed).

From there, check the center rod again, and if needed, the center rod can be rotated in the tool head sleeve for it as well (allen set bolts front and back, and the roll pin in the front).

So the bottom L bracket with spring and detent tweaked to mount it slightly more toward the front of the cross plate will index the cylinder at the neutral position to the tool head to being with , and then it just a mater of making sure that the center rod slot/index collar with ball is neutral in the upper section of slot is correct for neutral positions as well.

Bottom L bracket ball mates up with indent in the bottom of the cylinder for snap to neutral potions each stoke, and the index collar with prongs mates up to indent in the top of the cylinder to rotate the cylinder as you handle down (on the handle up stroke, the collar lift up to pull the prongs out of the cylinder top detent's, and rotates to grab the next set of detent's in the top of the cylinder to rotate the cylinder again.

And before you say it, getting the L bracket with spring and ball loaded in from the bottom with the cylinder retained in place without loosing the ball is a PITA. Very seldom will I load the L bracket in from the bottom with the cylinder still retained down.

Instead, I pull the cylinder up by first removing the retainers, load the spring and ball with lots of grease in the bolted down L bracket, then lower the cylinder down to compress the ball/spring into the L bracket channel that way instead. This way, you can feel if the ball is in the L bracket channel by gently rotating the cylinder to feel the click while holding it down, and if you don't feel the click, easy enough to lift the cylinder up to retrieve the ball out of the cross head void that it fell to, to try again.

As for the cylinder hold downs (83 and 84 and don't mix up which one goes to which location), the bolts are security allen bolts (102), but IIRQ, you already have the security Allen wrench for those bolts (PW sells the allen wrenches if needed).

As for getting the hold downs (83 and 83) indexed correct to the side of the cylinder for even gaps, I use a small screw drive between the side of it and the side of the cylinder to wedge the hold down in the correct position as I am tightening up the security bolts.

So ball in place in the L bracket, hand tighten the hold downs in place as you are holding the cylinder down during this, then go back and slightly loosen and re-tighten the hold downs with the hold down correctly index to full torque last.


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:45 am 
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Got it, or at least close enough. Turned main index shaft and tapped the L block over to take out what I could. It isn't perfect, but I have it pretty close. To do better I'd have to redo the L block. Al I have left to do is re-drill for the roll pin.

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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:34 pm
Posts: 46
Location: TUCSON,AZ
Question,
I just got a brand new 375c in 10 gauge and I am noticing there are some different parts on mine.
1st station just has a straight rod without springs and there is a rod in the back just past the size die removal hole. Lastly there is and extra die right side of sizing stage, would that be a taper tool?

Also when I put a loaded 3 1/2" 10ga shell in the size die it does not make it flush to the top. The loaded shell sets 3/32 below the top of the size die. Are all this things normal for the 10 gauge 375c.

I am new to shot shell reloading obviously. Thanks mct54

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: PW Presses - Tips & Tricks
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:25 am 
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375C tool set
Image

The 10ga. Tooling also comes with an extra piece, it is a Special Tapering Tool - after final crimping the 10ga. shell you knock it out, place the shell on the loading plate underneath the Special Taper Tool to give the shell a taper.
http://reloaders.com/375-tooling-10ga/? ... d_search=0

So when all fails, read the manual that comes with the machine!!!!!

If you got a machine without a manual, then you can get a manual from PW for free.
http://reloaders.com/owners-manuals/




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