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 Post subject: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:28 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:31 pm
Posts: 1511
Just exactly who makes it? I've heard Cheddite and I've heard Rio. My Ithaca's don't like Rios or Herters shells. However they do fine with Kent which is Cheddite I believe. The other day I ran 4 boxs of the new Federals thru the 12 gauge without a problem. I'd like to reload them their everywhere at the clubs,nobody saves them. I contacted Federal about them and they said they don't recommend reloading them and have no info available. What gives? They seem like a nice hull.




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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:24 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 2481
Location: KS
The Federal Field and Target with brass-washed head and flat plastic base wad appears to be a Cheddite hull loaded with Federal components. When reloading, you can use Cheddite data, but you will need a Euro-size primer (Fiocchi, NobleSport). W209 and Fed. 209 are way too loose, even for a break-action gun.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:28 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 4977
These are made 100% by Rio in Texas.

Hulls and data are Rio, but Cheddite data would work.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:19 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 2481
Location: KS
Interesting, makes much better business sense than an off-shore contract.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:35 am 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
US 209's and Cheddite primers will fall right out - Rio primers needed.
Mike B

_________________
"When you have to shoot, SHOOT... don't talk!" -- Tuco


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:34 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: Eastern Nebraska
My understanding is that Cheddite is the one "Euro" primer that is basically American size. I won a flat if these Fed Field and Target loads early in the year. They are all shot up now. I thought the ones I had looked like Top Guns with the wound paper base wad. But, I have seen some in the trash that had plastic basewads.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:55 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
albatros wrote:
My understanding is that Cheddite is the one "Euro" primer that is basically American size. I won a flat if these Fed Field and Target loads early in the year. They are all shot up now. I thought the ones I had looked like Top Guns with the wound paper base wad. But, I have seen some in the trash that had plastic basewads.


Correct - the older ones are just like Top Guns and can be loaded as such. The new ones with plastic basewad are Rio hulls, (as are the new "Estate") therefore, Rio primer.
Mike B

_________________
"When you have to shoot, SHOOT... don't talk!" -- Tuco


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:11 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Thanks Mike, I thought I was dreaming. I sure THOUGHT they looked like Top Guns.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:45 am 
*Proud to be a*
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CTSCA Mike wrote:
albatros wrote:
My understanding is that Cheddite is the one "Euro" primer that is basically American size. I won a flat if these Fed Field and Target loads early in the year. They are all shot up now. I thought the ones I had looked like Top Guns with the wound paper base wad. But, I have seen some in the trash that had plastic basewads.


Correct - the older ones are just like Top Guns and can be loaded as such. The new ones with plastic basewad are Rio hulls, (as are the new "Estate") therefore, Rio primer.
Mike B
Adding to the confusion, the all plastic "new" Estate loads are in fact Cheddite, made by them in France and the boxes are marked "Made in France".

There may be a "newer" Estate made by Rio in Texas, but if so I haven't seen them yet.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:11 am 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
Cerberus wrote:
Adding to the confusion, the all plastic "new" Estate loads are in fact Cheddite, made by them in France and the boxes are marked "Made in France".

There may be a "newer" Estate made by Rio in Texas, but if so I haven't seen them yet.


I am reciting only what I read elsewhere regarding the Rio Estates - the last batch of those that I loaded (for one and done sporting loads through my Golds) were Cheddite I believe - I used CCI primers easily. The hulls that I was mainly discussing were the Federal multi-packs currently being sold. Try any regular 209 or even a Cheddite on them, you'll be cleaning up powder from your reloader and bench, just as sure as God made green apples.
I am currently looking into buying some Rio primers to do "something" with all of these hulls, lol. Throwing them out is not in my DNA.
Mike B

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:31 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: Eastern Nebraska
It's getting to be quite a mess. WW has red and gray AAHS, Rem has STS and Nitro, Federal has Gold Medal plastic and paper. All of them have brassheads, they all have good hard shot, they all use standard size primers, and they all cost around $8.00 a box. Going down from there- WOW:
We have Rios which are made in Texas but every one calls them Euro hulls. They are Euro TYPE hulls and they do take Euro size primers. WW has Universals and Super Targets which are remarkably similar to each other. Then they come out with the new Browning loads which look a whole lot like Super Targets with black plastic. Remington has Gun Clubs and ther new one. They have the same hull just one with a brass wash. About the only real difference is shot hardness and they are not far apart. Then you have Federral. They make Top Guns in at least 4 different colors. They have Estates that might be Top Gun hull Estates or they might be Cheddite hull Estates. And since that is evidently not enough variety, they come out with Field and Target which also MIGHT be a Top Gun hull or a Euro hull, but the euro hull is made in Texas and takes a Euro primer. And don't forget: not all Euro primers are Euro size.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:57 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:37 pm
Posts: 178
mwr01 wrote:
The Federal Field and Target with brass-washed head and flat plastic base wad appears to be a Cheddite hull loaded with Federal components. When reloading, you can use Cheddite data, but you will need a Euro-size primer (Fiocchi, NobleSport). W209 and Fed. 209 are way too loose, even for a break-action gun.


I just cut open a Federal F and T to check the wad. I expected a federal two-piece wad like the promo loads, but instead found a 1-piece one. I didn't recognize this one. It has two columns of circles stacked on top of each other. Kind of like a Rem figure 8, but with two columns of four circles. The petals were stitched.

The reason I opened this one is because a buddy got some new Federal hulls that he said were two piece wads, and he was worried about the lower part getting stuck in his barrel. I had cut open a Federal promo in the past and noticed they were two piece, so I thought these would be the same. I don't know why he thought part of a wad would get stuck.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:30 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 709
I laughed until I cried at the responses of what these hulls were !

I see some fellas don't know what a Fed F & T hull looks like but they think it has
a paper base-wad......No it's Plastic and the hull is made in Marshal , Tx !

I load these with a Ched 209 as I've found a way of reducing the primer pocket !

Darn good hull , after the third reload.....is my finding !


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:57 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6403
Location: Eastern Nebraska
I'm one of those "fellas" you are apparently talking about.
Some Federal Field and Target hulls DO have a paper base wad. I have 5 or 6 of them and the box they came from sitting on my loading bench. In side they look identical to a Top Gun. Laugh and cry all you want- I just went down and looked at them 10 minutes ago- paper base wads. On each hull and on the box it says "Field and Target." I don't "think" they have paper basewads, I KNOW.

There are some things I don't know. For example: I don't know how it is that Cheddite primers work so well in your oversize primer pockets.

MY mistake: They say Field and Range on them. I don't actually think Federal makes and shell that is called Field and Target. They don't list one on their web site. I popped the primer out of one and find that a W209 is a nice snug fit. I have some Gun Clubs that were primed with Fiocchis. I popped the primer out of one of those and tried the primer I just took out of the Federal shell. Very sloppy, seat it with one finger.

Okay, wrong again, Federal makes a LOT of different shells Field and Target and Field and Range. And some have plastic basewads and some paper and some take US primers and some take euro, and it will probay al change next year.


Last edited by albatros on Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:07 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
Ravenanme wrote:
I laughed until I cried at the responses of what these hulls were !

I see some fellas don't know what a Fed F & T hull looks like but they think it has
a paper base-wad......No it's Plastic and the hull is made in Marshal , Tx !

I load these with a Ched 209 as I've found a way of reducing the primer pocket !

Darn good hull , after the third reload.....is my finding !


Not sure if your post is intended to sound snarky, but in either case, here's a view of a couple of the ones that are currently "out in the the wild".

In this picture, you'll see both of the "current" ones, though the ones on the left are now being replaced with newer ones shown on the right.
Image
The ones on right are the "Rio" hulls, and as I mentioned, trying to put a standard 209 primer will result in a mess. If you've found a way around it, great! For others, trust me, or try it for yourself and make a mess.


Image
In this picture, you'll see two "flavors" of the labeling that goes on with similar hulls, (both came in similarly labeled multi-packs...) some hulls are labeled as "Field and Range" and others with just the Federal name, "dram equivalent", shot size and weight. By the way, you can happily dry your "tears", because BOTH of the above hulls ABSOLUTELY have paper basewads, so... um, I am not sure what you are "laughing and crying" about.

The Rio hull pictured on the right in the other photo (with the brass/copper washed steel base) DO indeed have a plastic basewad - and WILL NOT take a standard sized primer as is.

Mike B

_________________
"When you have to shoot, SHOOT... don't talk!" -- Tuco


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:01 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 5707
Cerberus wrote:
These are made 100% by Rio in Texas.
.


Are not the hulls imported? Powder? Primers? Shot?


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:13 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 4977
ShowMe wrote:
Cerberus wrote:
These are made 100% by Rio in Texas.
.


Are not the hulls imported? Powder? Primers? Shot?
Don't know for sure, but when talking to some Rio management a couple years ago my understanding was that the Texas plant was to be completely self-sufficient.

In any case, my response was directed to the question of whether Federal was using imported Cheddite hulls to load with Federal components in a Federal plant.


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:31 pm 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 22988
The white box Estates are made by Cheddite while the two tone boxes are made in MN

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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:05 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:42 pm
Posts: 1894
Location: The U.P.'s U.P.
Assuming this thread is a discussion confined to 12-ga 2-3/4" hulls:

My observation of recently manufactured Federal hulls picked up locally is this:
  • All those with the separate plastic basewad are headstamped "Federal".
  • Those with wound paper basewads are head stamped "Made in USA".

Have there been exceptions to this noted from other locations in the U.S.?

(The Federal hulls of the gold-medal type or the large capacity type of one-piece construction are a wholly different matter.)

--Bob


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 Post subject: Re: New Federal Field and Target
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:49 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:02 pm
Posts: 213
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this about the new hulls with the plastic base. They measure 2.734 and the old top guns measure 2.648. You can easily see this when they are side by side after you shoot them or if you don't notice it then you will when you reload one as the new shell is significantly longer. I had to adjust the cam at station 5 on the Sizemaster and Grabber so the folds don't overlap when I tried out a box of them on each machine.




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