It is currently Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:50 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:48 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Blountville, TN
Greetings,
While reading the CTN article about 410 reloading, the author recommended a mild primer (R209P) for better burn of 296. Do any of you use this primer? I have enough R209s to last a long time if I use them for 410 only. Just wondering if they would be better than the venerable W209 I use for everything. My barrels looks like I have been using FFF after a 410 session.
Regards,
bc



_________________
Boyce Cross


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:54 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 781
Location: Honolulu
I couldn't disagree more. I use the Fed209A exclusively for H110/W296. The velocity numbers get way more consistent with the hotter primer versus the W209. While I haven't tried the Rem209P specifically, I wouldn't bet on it performing well. I've found the same to be true with Alliant 300MP.

_________________
"Don't let the little guy get you down."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:02 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:14 pm
Posts: 2012
Location: 35 miles from Normal, Illinois (as close to normal as I'll ever be)
I have never loaded W296 in the .410, but years ago I loaded a lot of it in very heavy magnum handgun loads. To get complete burn, a heavy crimp on the case mouth was required. I as understand it, the slow burning powder needs the initial resistance to build pressure and burn completely. In the case of the .410, that might equate to needing a casing in good shape that gives a firm crimp.

_________________
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Justice Louis D. Brandeis (1856-1941)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:33 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:07 am
Posts: 1980
Location: Paris,Illinois
Almost any combo w/the .410 will be unclean--I use Cheddites with 296/110-A dirty bore is of little concern to me.A consistent load/velocity is my goal.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:05 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 2406
Location: Newton Kansas
simsy9 wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. I use the Fed209A exclusively for H110/W296. The velocity numbers get way more consistent with the hotter primer versus the W209. While I haven't tried the Rem209P specifically, I wouldn't bet on it performing well. I've found the same to be true with Alliant 300MP.

Agreed.

The way W296/H110 performs in handguns, demanding very hot primers, heavy crimps, and absolute full-pressure maximum loads (no more than 5% reduction from maximum), I would expect no difference from it's behavior because it's stuck in a shotgun shell.

That powder, you Go Big, or you stay home and play with other powders.

Use loads to keep it as close to full .410 pressure as you can, hit it with the hottest primer you can get (the Fed. 209A apparently), and it should work alright.
Anything less and you are asking for trouble.

_________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:18 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:04 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Wenatchee, WA
If you think H110/296 is dirty, try some 2400. It is even worse. Just the price we pay for shooting the 410. Even the factory loads are very dirty. Just shoot them and don't worry about it. Hotter primers don't seem to make any difference in what you see in the bore after firing. If the chronograph says they are more consistent then use them. I use Win 209's until the primer pockets begin to leak then switch to Rio's.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:45 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:27 am
Posts: 6104
Location: Silicon Valley
FWIW only, I have moved to 300MP for 410. I load it with Win 209's: AAHS hull, WW209 primer, CB5050- HS wad, 16.7 grs (my MEC #13 bushing). Passes my chrono at 1325, patterns beautifully and burns are very clean.

_________________
Jack

Human ego will naturally resist change, yet change is the fuel that powers progress...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:16 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Blountville, TN
I no longer have the issue of CTN with the article so I don't have the exact reason stated for the mild primer nor do I remember the author. With no pressure/velocity stats for comparison, who can say. (If its printed in a mag., it has to be true....LOL).

Jack, from the volume of powder I get with a #12 bushing of 296 (15.6g) and 217 grains of magnum 8's, I think a #13 would be pretty tight in the HS case (CB clone wad). Perhaps 9's pack down better. One thing I can say is they pulverize targets!
Thanks,
bc

_________________
Boyce Cross


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:42 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:27 am
Posts: 6104
Location: Silicon Valley
With those components and amount of 300MP, and using a standard MEC ½ oz bar (not the INTL Skeet bar) with #8 shot, it all fits and crimps very nicely -- and yes, they hammer targets pretty impressively! {hs#

_________________
Jack

Human ego will naturally resist change, yet change is the fuel that powers progress...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:00 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 10095
Location: Alvin, Texas
Ball powders are a bit harder to light than flake powders, and ALWAYS benefit from hot primers. H110 and W296 are Ball powders, as is 300MP. Therefore ANY primer with less brisance than a W-209, is not the best for use with ball powders period!!! The very hot Federal 209A, is also a great primer for Ball Powders.

Any primer milder than a W-209 will give increased velocity variations if used with Ball powders.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:29 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:29 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Maine
Depends on hull. The Hodgdon data CF AAs using H110 (= 296) has always shown Win 209s giving greater MV with less pressure vs Fed 209As.

I found this hard to believe and ran my own chrono tests that proved Hodgdon right (velocity, anyway).

With HS hulls order is restored in the universe, the nominally hotter 209A gives higher velocities.

FWIW, I have several lifetimes worth of CF AAs and have no problems in ME winter cold using Win 209s or STS209s.

I never saw any difference in residual dirt in the bore as a function of primer, including the 209As. The issue has more to do with 296 ball powder and its optimal operating pressure. Magnum handgun and .30 carbine loads with 296 burn clean, but do so at substantially higher operating pressures. I don't intend to load my .410s to those pressures just to have less dirt in the bore.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:06 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:04 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Wenatchee, WA
In several load data sheets I have seen instances where the hotter primer gave lower pressures and wondered if it wasn't the primer blowing the load part way out of the hull on the initial primer blast that gave more volume for the powder charge to expand in. Most any 209 primer will send the shot charge down the barrel without any powder. We've all had that blooper that somehow didn't get a powder charge. When loading steel waterfowl loads, I strive for a vey full hull that gets a tight, deep crimp. Pressure testing has shown the deeper crimp also increases pressure as it increased resistance to the load leaving the hull.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:49 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 781
Location: Honolulu
Flyn'dutchman wrote:
...wondered if it wasn't the primer blowing the load part way out of the hull on the initial primer blast...

I believe Republican had a test using a Rio primer in which he came to a similar hypothesis. As for H110 and AAHS cases, I have done some apples-apples pressure testing with the W209 and the Fed209A. With everything else the same, the velocity SD with the W209 was 300% of the Fed209A. The pressure SD with the W209 was 400% of that of the Fed209A.

The average velocity and pressure between the two loads was identical.

_________________
"Don't let the little guy get you down."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:07 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Blountville, TN
That's good news since I have a sleeve of F209A with no plans for it.

_________________
Boyce Cross


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:58 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:04 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Simsy9, so you are saying the pressure and velocity was much more consistent with the Fed 209A? Want to make sure I am reading the 300% and 400% correctly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:13 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 5974
Location: Eastern Nebraska
In 357 mag it is pretty much accepted that WW296 (H110) needs a good solid crimp, heavier bullets, and no (or minimal) reductions in powder charge. That DOES NOT sound like a powder that would benefit from a mild primer. Can't see why things would be different in a shotshell running at LOWER pressure.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:25 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 781
Location: Honolulu
Flyn'dutchman wrote:
Simsy9, so you are saying the pressure and velocity was much more consistent with the Fed 209A? Want to make sure I am reading the 300% and 400% correctly.

That is correct.

_________________
"Don't let the little guy get you down."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:12 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:28 pm
Posts: 3332
Remington and Federal made milder primers for loading 410. What do they know?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:23 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:40 pm
Posts: 781
Location: Honolulu
ShowMe wrote:
Remington and Federal made milder primers for loading 410. What do they know?

If they "made" and not "make" then I'd say they've figured it out. Maybe they used something faster, like Lil'gun, that worked well with other primers too.

Alliant has said publicly on this website that their 300MP works better with Fed209A primers. What do they know?

_________________
"Don't let the little guy get you down."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Another 410 question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:50 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 5974
Location: Eastern Nebraska
I really doubt Federal or Alliant uses much WW 296.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: bigjedd, Bing [Bot], bulljiggy, casonet, cassandraxw3, cole1, D McMillen, Diddle, DLC1951, dubob, firedude601, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, hopper810, jrmev, katrinamj11, leftex, Lrdchaos, lubloy, Marauder, Maser, melbaLT4, Powderflask, raymond525, RHS47, rkittine, Safetyfast, schlarmanm1, SmokeJS, snooky, son of thurlo, Station9, Syreel, target johnny, tarpon120al, TOM-M, Virginian, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice