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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:26 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 778
Republican,
in that pdf you listed, it shows 3/4oz 12ga loads with Prima-V, but none with A24.
The Prima V for a 7/8oz load is:
7/8 oz. Winchester AA HS Win 209 WAA12L PRIMA V 19.3 gr 1300 9,300 PSI
While the A24 for the same 7/8oz load is:
7/8 oz. Winchester AA HS Win 209 WAA12L A24 18.0 gr 1300 10,200 PSI

So you're going with the A24 as it will give a nicer higher-pressure burn with 3/4oz and also a bit less powder needed it looks like....

I'm interested in buying some, but would want to be able to use the A24 for both 7/8oz and 3/4oz, in Rem GC, CB 0178-12 and CB-0175-12, primers could be Win209/Ch209/Fed209A... does anyone have any data for these loads at all? (anyone test them I mean).
Thx!




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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:31 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:23 am
Posts: 806
Location: Issaquah, WA
Dave in AZ wrote:
Republican,
in that pdf you listed, it shows 3/4oz 12ga loads with Prima-V, but none with A24.
The Prima V for a 7/8oz load is:
7/8 oz. Winchester AA HS Win 209 WAA12L PRIMA V 19.3 gr 1300 9,300 PSI
While the A24 for the same 7/8oz load is:
7/8 oz. Winchester AA HS Win 209 WAA12L A24 18.0 gr 1300 10,200 PSI

So you're going with the A24 as it will give a nicer higher-pressure burn with 3/4oz and also a bit less powder needed it looks like....

I'm interested in buying some, but would want to be able to use the A24 for both 7/8oz and 3/4oz, in Rem GC, CB 0178-12 and CB-0175-12, primers could be Win209/Ch209/Fed209A... does anyone have any data for these loads at all? (anyone test them I mean).
Thx!

The CB-0178-12 is a clone of the WAA12L so the 7/8 oz load for A24 you quote should be fine using it. 3/4 oz tested data is hard to come by, however many around here have no problem taking a published 7/8 oz load and reducing the shot payload to 3/4 oz. Smaller payload means lower pressure, all other things being equal. If the stack height will permit it, reducing the powder charge a bit to keep the speeds in the same general ballpark is also reasonable. The CB-0175-12 is virtually identical to the CB-0178-12 except for the bump in the bottom of the shotcup to take up space and allow a good crimp with only 3/4 oz of shot so building a 3/4 oz load based on the 7/8 oz recipe should not cause any problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:29 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:47 am
Posts: 9960
Location: Covington, WA USA
Dave in AZ wrote:
I'm interested in buying some, but would want to be able to use the A24 for both 7/8oz and 3/4oz, in Rem GC, CB 0178-12 and CB-0175-12, primers could be Win209/Ch209/Fed209A... does anyone have any data for these loads at all? (anyone test them I mean).
Thx!

Yup! A24 is your guy for all that you list above. 7/8th's ounce in Gun clubs with the CB-0178, and 3/4 ounce with the CB-0175. You will love it. It's my ExtraLite replacement now.

Here is how A24 stacks up against Alliants ExtraLite in 3/4 ounce :

Image

As far as them listing 3/4 ounce loads with Prima-V, I just can't see that powder making a very stable/consistent 3/4 ounce load. It's a 1-ounce powder, and in my view, 1-ounce powders don't make good 3/4 ounce powders.

The 8-page A24 3/4 ounce thread from hell is here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=430166

And there is a recent A24 7/8ths ounce thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=457945


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:34 am 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:49 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Hooper, UT
Thanks for the heads up R. I have 20 bottles of AO on the way. It is now my go to 20GA powder for Skeet. My bride and I shoot 20GA in our registered events for Doubles, 12, and 20; great stuff.

_________________
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I’m 75 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.”
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:47 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 778
Great info, thx! Ordering some today.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:50 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:45 am
Posts: 681
Location: Utah
I ordered more AS, very similar to American Select powder. I have shot both powders side by side hard to tell the difference, I posted before Vectan powder are very clean burning. Shot some Rex 0 yesterday, and it was night and day difference.. alot of crud around my piston seal of my FabArm auto. 10Tenner


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:40 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:23 am
Posts: 806
Location: Issaquah, WA
Tenguage wrote:
I ordered more AS, very similar to American Select powder. I have shot both powders side by side hard to tell the difference, I posted before Vectan powder are very clean burning. Shot some Rex 0 yesterday, and it was night and day difference.. alot of crud around my piston seal of my FabArm auto. 10Tenner

Rex 0 (or any of the Rex powders, actually) is definitely the wrong choice for a gas operated semi-auto. When it was available, its principle attribute was that it was cheap. Many of us were willing to put up with the dirt for the savings. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that once my supply of Rex 0 is gone, it's A24 for me!


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:13 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:45 am
Posts: 681
Location: Utah
Pickman, you have that right about rex being dirty. At the time I was using a o/u, but now a auto. I wished I had just A24 powder. And yes about cheap bought the last 8 cans from Connie's $10.00 for a 1.1 lbs. 10Tenner


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:39 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:23 am
Posts: 806
Location: Issaquah, WA
Actually, I think those cans were 1 Kg so that's 2.2 lbs - an even better price. I never used Rex 0 in anything heavier than 7/8 oz (usually 3/4 oz). Those shoot just fine out of an O/U with very low recoil. I did make some one ounce loads with Rex 1 and tried them in a Browning Gold semi-auto. After the first 5 or six boxes, I realized the error of my ways!


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:01 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 778
10 lbs a24 and 3 bricks of various primers on the way...


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:04 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 360
Just ordered a case; 18 AS plus 2 A24. Works out to $111.91 / 8lbs.

Love AS for 1 oz loads. Wanted to try A24 for 7/8 for first shot of doubles.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:29 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 144
Location: Northern Michigan
Here is some 7/8ths 12 gauge loads I had tested:

Weight: 7/8ths oz 382 gr.
Hull: Remington Gun Club
Primer: Fed 209A
Wad: CB-0178-12
Powder: Prima SV
Powder Weight: 17.9 gr.
Bushing/Setting: 27
PSI: 9925 Avg.
FPS: 1,317 (chrono avg.)
Notes: Machine dropped on a Mec 600 Jr.
ES 33
SD 9
Hi 1333 fps
Lo 1300 fps

Great load, clean, consistent and I fits great! Wads available locally but just couldn't get it the level I wanted for 3/4 oz using the CB-0175-12.

Weight: 7/8ths oz 382 gr.
Hull: Remington Gun Club
Primer: Win 209
Wad: Purple Duster
Powder: Nobel Sport Vectan A24
Powder Weight: 17.4 gr.
Bushing/Setting: 34
PSI: 10,104 Avg.
FPS: 1,296 (chrono avg.)
Notes: Machine dropped on a Mec 600 Jr.
ES - 41
SD -10
Hi - 1318 fps
Lo - 1277 fps

The bulkier A24 fits best with the shorter Purple Duster wad. Since Graf's doesn't carry the Purple Duster I have to order from another source (Recobs) and pay extra shipping.

Because of that I have done some initial work with A24 using the DRXXL pink wads for 7/8ths and 3/4 oz loads and they look promising, good stack heights crimps etc.. Their length is in between a Purple Duster and a CB-078-12. I'm hoping for one wad for both 7/8ths and 3/4.

I may also try them for one ounce loads using AS, since Downrange says they can be used for one ounce loads.

With the money I save on powder from Graf's with the no Haz Mat fee, flat rate $7.95 shipping and I can add on more powder and primers, I feel spending less than a penny more on the Downrange wads (not available locally) puts me way ahead of the game!

I have been using he NS Vectans for a while now and am very happy with their performance, cleanliness, price and availability.

Hope this is helpful!


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:07 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 778
Very good info Nicoli, thanks for posting!
So I feel more confident using your datapoints, could you tell who did your testing etc.?
I'll be interested in your wad results, as I haven't used either the purple duster or the DRXXL pink wad-- I'm using RemGC hulls but the CB or AA wads for 7/8oz and 1oz.
Thx!


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:44 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 360
Thanks for the info. It gives me a good starting point for testing loads, we use a lot of the same components. I want to see if I can get something with a little lower fps while maintaining decent pressure.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:52 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 144
Location: Northern Michigan
Dave in AZ wrote:
Very good info Nicoli, thanks for posting!
So I feel more confident using your datapoints, could you tell who did your testing etc.?
I'll be interested in your wad results, as I haven't used either the purple duster or the DRXXL pink wad-- I'm using RemGC hulls but the CB or AA wads for 7/8oz and 1oz.
Thx!


Dave I use Precision Reloading.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:00 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 144
Location: Northern Michigan
gbrendemuehl wrote:
Thanks for the info. It gives me a good starting point for testing loads, we use a lot of the same components. I want to see if I can get something with a little lower fps while maintaining decent pressure.


I think A24 will give the cleaner born at lower pressures, if that's why you want to keep your pressure up.

The SV left some residue at lower speeds (powder charges) and with Win 209 primers. SV is so fine that the next size down bushing was only throwing 17.0 gn

I bumped the speed up to avoid a "Hot Core" that some have written about for 7/8ths. It is also closer to the speed of my hunting loads.

As always, measure your powder drops with your lot of powder and bushings!


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:41 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:47 am
Posts: 9960
Location: Covington, WA USA
Nicoli7153 wrote:
Here is some 7/8ths 12 gauge loads I had tested:

Weight: 7/8ths oz 382 gr.
Hull: Remington Gun Club
Primer: Fed 209A
Wad: CB-0178-12
Powder: Prima SV
Powder Weight: 17.9 gr.
Bushing/Setting: 27
PSI: 9925 Avg.
FPS: 1,317 (chrono avg.)
Notes: Machine dropped on a Mec 600 Jr.
ES 33
SD 9
Hi 1333 fps
Lo 1300 fps

Great load, clean, consistent and I fits great! Wads available locally but just couldn't get it the level I wanted for 3/4 oz using the CB-0175-12.

What do you mean by this (highlighted) statement ? Are you talking about stack height ?


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:56 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:40 am
Posts: 144
Location: Northern Michigan
ES of 47 and 53 using 17.0 gn of Prima SV and Win 209 and Fed209A respectively, SD of 16 for each load.

A24 was a little better using the CB-0175-12 wad with an ES of 49 SD of ES 13 with 16.2 gn but much cleaner. I think the stack height might be a little better with the DRXXL Pink wad.

Pretty close? Yes, but my personal preference.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:28 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 360
Nicoli7153 wrote:
gbrendemuehl wrote:
Thanks for the info. It gives me a good starting point for testing loads, we use a lot of the same components. I want to see if I can get something with a little lower fps while maintaining decent pressure.


I think A24 will give the cleaner born at lower pressures, if that's why you want to keep your pressure up.

The SV left some residue at lower speeds (powder charges) and with Win 209 primers. SV is so fine that the next size down bushing was only throwing 17.0 gn

I bumped the speed up to avoid a "Hot Core" that some have written about for 7/8ths. It is also closer to the speed of my hunting loads.

As always, measure your powder drops with your lot of powder and bushings!


Thanks for the reply

In searching the forum for 7/8th loads and speed, I found a recommended range of 1250 to 1300. Slower gives a hot core, faster just adds recoil. So I not looking to to drastically reduce speed, just hit that range.

I have a couple of canisters of A24 coming with a bunch of AS, my 1 oz powder, on Friday. I like loading and testing with a couple different amounts of powder to understand how it performs. For example, with AS I had loads with 17.2 and 17.7 gr tested. The 17.2 load gave me 1205fps and pressure just over 10k. The 17.7 load did little to increase speed but did jump pressure (upper 10k).

Depending on how much I want to spend on testing, I have Win & Fed primers and Purple & DRR pink wads. I like the Dusters (live close enough to Recobs to drive) and will probably just use those wads.


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 Post subject: Re: Vectan powder sale at Grafs: $14.99/bottle
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:11 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 778
Just a report on MEC Bushings with Vectan A24. My throws were about 0.8gr less than what other folks have reported in this and the 3/4oz thread.

I just threw 10 loads on MEC9000, using bushing #32. It's a pretty smooth one, not much clunking. Using the metal baffle. All 10 were exactly 15.3 gr, except one 15.5 and one 15.4.

I used bushing #33 and got 16.2 over 10 loads, varying from 16.0 to 16.5.
I then loaded 250 shells, taking maybe 15 samples as I went. All samples were 16.0 to 16.2 gr.
I used Hornady digital scale, calibrated with the included weight, and verified with a 2nd Hornady scale of the same model. I cross-weighed at least 10 throws on both scales and got same weight on both each time, so I think it's good accuracy.

I'm targeting the loads Republican chrono'd. Ended up with 16.2 gr powder. But I used Fed209A and Ch209, so will see what they chrono.




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