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 Post subject: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:29 pm
Posts: 2
I have a decision making problem and therefore I'm putting this out for some advise.

My problem is the WIN AAHS 20 gauge hulls are too short.

I'm a new member to this forum but I've been reading a lot of threads here and i have learned a lot, such as, the Win AAHS is smaller (less capacity) than say the Remington hulls. I've also read that the RXP-20 / WTW Windjammer-20 wads are shorter and accommodate the bulky power and 7/8 oz shot much better.

My recipe is: (straight from the Alliant Re-loader's Guide)
16 gr. HERCO
Win 209 primer
CB-1078-20 wad
7/8 oz shot
(I use a 366 press)

No matter how much I tweak my press the wad inside is crushed. (I can see it by shining a light thru the hull).
I've also tried using the Unique and 20/28 powders. I can, make the 20/28 powder work but it sure is "tight" and I'm too comfortable with that.

I've checked the Alliant re-loader's guide and there is a recipe for 20/28 powder with windjammer wads... but... No recipe for HERCO or Unigue and Windjammers.

What I'm going to do is buy some Windjammers and use the 20/28 powder and recipe and reload my 20's in that manner.

Now... my question and request for advise. I have a lot of HERCO and Unique powder and many Win AAHS hulls. I also know the #1 cardinal rule of re-loading is NOT mixing components... BUT... what do you think will happen if I load using the Windjammers with the HERCO and UNIQUE powders????

I also need to mention that I use Briley Tubes to shoot 20 gauge out of my Beretta 692.

Thanks to all in advance...




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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:10 pm 
Tournament Grade
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Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Gunnison
In 2008, Alliant published these loads in their "Reloaders Guide":

Win 20AA 7/8 Herco 18.0gr Fed 209A Windjammer 1200 9880
Win 20AA 7/8 Unique 17.0gr Fed 209A Windjammer 1200 9880


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:34 pm
Posts: 433
Location: Boerne, Texas
I think you will like the 20/28 powder and windjammer 20 gauge wad. I just ran out of the windjammer wads and I am loading claybusters. Getting the windjammer shipped is expensive, no local dealers selling them. Very good fit in the Winchester HS hull.


Last edited by skeet1958 on Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6119
Location: Eastern Nebraska
If you really want to use Herco (and I have used some) get Remington RXP wads. With Unique they are also the best choice. But, if you have a choice of powder, go with 20/28. It makes wad selection much less crucial. If you are only loading AAHS, then Win Super Field us also a great choice. It is so dense that you will get dished in crimps in Remington hulls.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:19 pm 
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I would throw the Orange Duster into the mix with Unique and the AAHS. I have not had stack height problems with that combination.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Location: Alvin, Texas
Texas Jim,
Load the Windjammers just like they were Winchester wads. No pressure problems there.
The Windjammers will also work fine with Unique, Universal, and 20/28 in AA 20 ga. hulls.

Windjammer wads can be bought by the case direct from the Factory's outlet for approx $95 including shipment.

Call the Windjammer Customer service number to get the outlet's number for ordering. The wads actually only cost about $64, but the shipping is near $30.

From my tests and experience, in 20 ga. the Windjammers are the best fitting and performing wad on the planet today, for 7/8 oz. loads

If you wish to load 3/4 oz 20 ga loads, the CB1075-20 is also a great fitting and performing wad. That's my favorite load. Patterns exactly like a 28 ga. load.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:12 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Houston, TX
I wish I remembered who posted this quote so I could attribute it appropriately, but it has always stuck with me. "I wouldn't be too concerned with a little wad compression, can you imagine what happens when you pull the trigger?"

Those may not have been their exact words, but the point is still valid. I little prestress on the wad isn't going to effect much.

I've loaded 17 grains of Herco in the Remington hulls, and thought they were a stout load. I didn't have a crono at the time, but me guess is they were faster than my 1200 20/28 load at 15.7 grains in a Win hull.

BTW I share DL Marcom's opinion on the Windjammer wads in 20 ga. I also load them in 12 ga., one ounce loads for Skeet. There a lot to like with these wads!


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:43 am 
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One possible result of wad compression is tented crimps. When the wad is compressed, it exerts pressure upward and could cause the crimp to open back up.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:08 am 
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Location: New Mexico
I have been loading 14.0 gr of Universal Windjammer wad and win 209 primers. It fits perfectly in the AAhs hulls.
I am also loading on the 366.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:34 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6119
Location: Eastern Nebraska
IF there is not so much compression that it does bulge the crimp, I don't see it as a big problem. However, when you are dealing with AAHS, wad compression CAN be a big problem depending on when it is applied. If when you get to the crimping stage the shot is sitting high in the hull, the criming process WILL cram it down to where it is supposed to be AND often buckle the case walls at the same time. As a general rule, finding a load that fits well (either via powder density or wad selection) makes life easier, makes reloading go smoother, and avoids shot rattling sround in the bottom of a box of shells.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:01 am 
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Use your Herco for 12 ga handicap trap and field loads. I use about 15 grains of either Unique or 20/28 for target loads and it's just fine, so you can cut back a grain or two for a little more room. The wad that I've found with the least room is the Winchester branded WAA20. Its Claybuster clone in a side by side comparison is a little roomier in my experience. Windjammer wads are a lot roomier. Tweek a little here and there and you will work it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6119
Location: Eastern Nebraska
I actually have used Herco in 20 gauge AAHS and for the exact same reason as the OP: I had about a pound of it, it had been sitting on the shelf for years, and I don't hunt (other than hunt clay pigeons.) i just wanted it used up. It is not an ideal 20 gauge 7/8 ounce powder, at least not in AAHS. But get a bag of Rem RXP wads and it works fine and dandy. Get it used up and IF you want to load more, there are better powder choices.

Although in many cases the OEM AA wad is a very poor choice for AAHS, there is one scenario where it fits great: AAHS AND Winchester powder (WSF.) It is entirely possible WW designed the hull and the wad for their powder. Same thing holds true in 12 gauge. Try to load a 1 1/8 handicap load in a Super Handicap hull with Green Dot (a prototypical handicap powder) and it does not fit well at all unless you find a shorter wad. But, use 20-21 grains of WSH and it fits great with the standard AA wad. AAHS hulls are undersized for a lot of the powders we like to use. They are perfectly sized for the powder WW uses.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:29 pm
Posts: 2
GREAT ADVICE AND GREAT RESPONSES EVERYONE!!!!!

I'm going to order some Windjammers...

My goal is to finish the Herco and Unique powders and continue forward with my 20/28 (which is my go-to powder because i also load 28ga)...

Thanks once again to all...


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:27 pm 
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PS. I think that you can also use the Herco in the 28 ga hulls

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:10 am
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A very educational post!

Welcome to SGW club Texas Jim!

Tx Yankee
Boerne


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:33 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:09 pm
Posts: 6119
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Texas Jim wrote:
GREAT ADVICE AND GREAT RESPONSES EVERYONE!!!!!

I'm going to order some Windjammers...

My goal is to finish the Herco and Unique powders and continue forward with my 20/28 (which is my go-to powder because i also load 28ga)...

Thanks once again to all...

What a coincidence!
Exactly the two powders I was trying to use up. My Herco was so old that I originally purchased it by the pound in a paper bag. It sat in a coffee can for 30 years (and worked fine,) Got them used (with RXP wads) then onwards and upwards with 20/28 and WSF. My personal choice is Orange Duster and the CB AA clone, but I don't doubt for a moment that the jammers will be fine.

And:
I had not noticed that you are a new member- welcome, glad to have you.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:54 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:54 pm
Posts: 126
Next time you're at the range, pick up some Federal or Estate hulls. Herco is a much better fit in those hulls than in WAAHS. The CB wad you are using is not the one called for in the Herco data, it calls for the WAA20F1, that could be part of your issue. I only load 3/4 oz in the 20, and in Remington and Winchester hulls I use the CB 7/8 oz wads, in the Fed/Estate hulls I use the CB 3/4 wads. Like you, I have a LOT of Herco and use it successfully in the 20 gauge. It is pretty "snappy", for low recoil loads in the 20 I use Unique.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking help on my Win AAHS hulls problem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:58 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:00 pm
Posts: 150
Location: Garland, TX
D L Marcum wrote:
Texas Jim,
Load the Windjammers just like they were Winchester wads. No pressure problems there.
The Windjammers will also work fine with Unique, Universal, and 20/28 in AA 20 ga. hulls.

Windjammer wads can be bought by the case direct from the Factory's outlet for approx $95 including shipment.

Call the Windjammer Customer service number to get the outlet's number for ordering. The wads actually only cost about $64, but the shipping is near $30.

From my tests and experience, in 20 ga. the Windjammers are the best fitting and performing wad on the planet today, for 7/8 oz. loads

If you wish to load 3/4 oz 20 ga loads, the CB1075-20 is also a great fitting and performing wad. That's my favorite load. Patterns exactly like a 28 ga. load.

DLM


Graf & Sons just sent out an email with 10% off and free shipping for orders over $75. You can purchase a case of Windjammers (20 and 12 ga) for under $75 delivered to your door! Although you will need to add something to get the free shipping, throw on a 500ct bag of 410 or 28ga (they are also 10% off and free delivery).

Another great thing about this sale is if you buy 10 bottles of Vectan (about $150), you get free hazmat, then you can add primers to the order and yep, primers are 10% off their already great prices.

Enjoy!




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