It is currently Tue May 22, 2018 5:10 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:26 am 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:33 am
Posts: 1654
Location: Morristown Tn
D L Marcum wrote:
I'm one of those who prefer #8-1/2 shot for all Skeet shooting. Since Eagle shot is slightly under size, I purchase #8 shot when buying Eagle shot and the result is that it really is about the same as #8-1/2 Lawrence. Can't tell the difference in performance. Works as well as any other brand and is usually a bit cheaper.

DLM

{hs#



_________________
"Don't pi$$ down my back and tell me it's raining." Outlaw Josie Wales


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:39 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 1194
Location: Grayling, MI
ShowMe wrote:
tjen wrote:
As I under stand it smaller shot like #8-#9 require more antimony than larger shot to have the same hardness.


That is NOT my understanding. Tom Roster wrote that #9 has LESS antimony because higher levels would make it difficult to drop round #9 shot.


Tom wrote an article in Shooting Sportsman on lead shot and clearly stated larger shot #4 requires less Antimony than smaller shot #8 to make it just as hard. I did say "LIKE" #8 & #9 shot so I not arguing about #9 shot or it's antimony just general terms and practices. Very good article.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:31 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 125
Location: Orange Park, FL
Nebs wrote:
superskeet wrote:
I can get more shot in my loads with Lawrence than Eagle given the same weight drop. Also because of the difference in weight you actually get more shot per 25# bag with Lawrence than Eagle.
Interesting, the first point and the second point contradict one another. Two factors. (a) Lawrence has more antimony than the Eagle, validating the second point. Because you load by volume, you should be getting roughly the same number of pellets of each per drop, assuming the two brands of shot are of the same size. The load using the Lawrence will be lighter. (b) But, the Eagle shot is smaller than the Lawrence, so, you should be getting not only more pellets with the Eagle but also a heavier shot charge because of both the lower antimony level and more pellets.


I didn't say by volume drop!! I said by weight drop!!! If I use the same volume drop the weight of the Eagle is significantly more.

_________________
Former Member US Navy Skeet Shooting Team
NSSA Level 1 Instructor
NSSA Life Member
NRA Member


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:46 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 6:01 pm
Posts: 5939
"If I use the same volume drop the weight of the Eagle is significantly more."

I find that to be true also. Sorta surprised me. The charge bar I had "adjusted" for the Lawrence shot went over weight with the Eagle. No big deal but I would prefer shot that is the size it says it is. Then I get to pick what I want to use. I do not buy the excuse that the shot maker is 'allowed" one size over or under. That is no reason for not making and packaging it the correct size. And no, it does not really matter much to my shooting. I miss a lot with factory 7.5's too. On my bench are bags of Lawrence and Eagle and I will not remember which I loaded. And I will load the same volume. But given the chance I will buy the Lawrence when I restock.

I bought one of those cheap sets of Chinese drills with every size. #, Letter, fractional. But down in the little sizes the number drills were in "groups" of the same size. Mike 6 or 8 in a row and get the same number. Probably within someones plus or minus specifications if you read the fine print but essentially useless if you need a certain size or wanted the drills to use as a "gauge".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:13 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 3723
Location: Annapolis, MD
superskeet wrote:
Nebs wrote:
superskeet wrote:
I can get more shot in my loads with Lawrence than Eagle given the same weight drop. Also because of the difference in weight you actually get more shot per 25# bag with Lawrence than Eagle.
Interesting, the first point and the second point contradict one another. Two factors. (a) Lawrence has more antimony than the Eagle, validating the second point. Because you load by volume, you should be getting roughly the same number of pellets of each per drop, assuming the two brands of shot are of the same size. The load using the Lawrence will be lighter. (b) But, the Eagle shot is smaller than the Lawrence, so, you should be getting not only more pellets with the Eagle but also a heavier shot charge because of both the lower antimony level and more pellets.


I didn't say by volume drop!! I said by weight drop!!! If I use the same volume drop the weight of the Eagle is significantly more.
Yes, you did, my apologies for the oversight. But, how do you load by weight? Do you weigh each shot charge?

_________________
Ceteris paribus, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:02 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 10267
Location: Alvin, Texas
Weight vs. volume. Fact is the drops are ALWAYS by volume. Weight can be adjusted by reaming a bar, or adjusting a UCB, but the actual drop will remain by volume. Adjust the volume and it will automatically adjust the weight.

Actually, regardless of antimony content a standard MEC bar will throw the same volume of shot with any grade if shot. Sometimes reaming a bar will affect the stack height enough to have a bad effect on crimping. Or in some cases it can improve stack height. (STS 410 cases comes to mind).

As long as you are getting the full volume of shot, actual weight of a few grains less will not, and has never, affected the performance of a well designed shot shell recipe.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:40 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 125
Location: Orange Park, FL
.[/quote]Yes, you did, my apologies for the oversight. But, how do you load by weight? Do you weigh each shot charge?[/quote]

I use a scale(which nobody reloading should be without). NEVER load by volume! This topic alone on the difference in shot brands is reason enough, not to mention the difference in powders between lots . How many load recipes are given in volume? NONE!! Never trust a powder bushing chart or the shot drop stated on a charge bar. Weigh EVERYTHING! 219gr is 1/2 ounce for 410, but I load 232gr which is the max allowed by NSSA. They don't state the max amount of volume. Using the Lawrence shot gives me many more pellets over the Eagle at the same weight.

Reloading is serious business. Do it RIGHT!

_________________
Former Member US Navy Skeet Shooting Team
NSSA Level 1 Instructor
NSSA Life Member
NRA Member


Last edited by superskeet on Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:16 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:50 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 125
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bill M. wrote:
"If I use the same volume drop the weight of the Eagle is significantly more."

I find that to be true also. Sorta surprised me. The charge bar I had "adjusted" for the Lawrence shot went over weight with the Eagle. No big deal but I would prefer shot that is the size it says it is. Then I get to pick what I want to use. I do not buy the excuse that the shot maker is 'allowed" one size over or under. That is no reason for not making and packaging it the correct size. And no, it does not really matter much to my shooting. I miss a lot with factory 7.5's too. On my bench are bags of Lawrence and Eagle and I will not remember which I loaded. And I will load the same volume. But given the chance I will buy the Lawrence when I restock.

I bought one of those cheap sets of Chinese drills with every size. #, Letter, fractional. But down in the little sizes the number drills were in "groups" of the same size. Mike 6 or 8 in a row and get the same number. Probably within someones plus or minus specifications if you read the fine print but essentially useless if you need a certain size or wanted the drills to use as a "gauge".


The difference in weight is not due to any slight difference in shot size between brands, it's the difference in the amount of antimony in the lead. The more antimony the harder and lighter the shot is. Yes there might be some minute difference due to shot size, but the main reason in the difference between Lawrence and Eagle is the antimony.

_________________
Former Member US Navy Skeet Shooting Team
NSSA Level 1 Instructor
NSSA Life Member
NRA Member


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:01 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 125
Location: Orange Park, FL
The difference in weight between Lawrence and Eagle is significant. If you set up your loader for Lawrence and then switch to Eagle you must adjust your shot drop WEIGHT(by adjusting the amount of volume in the charge bar)to have the same performance as far as velocity and pressure. Also if you're shooting competition and switch from Lawrence to Eagle the shot weight difference might put you over the legal limit.

_________________
Former Member US Navy Skeet Shooting Team
NSSA Level 1 Instructor
NSSA Life Member
NRA Member


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:57 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 21486
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
superskeet wrote:
The difference in weight between Lawrence and Eagle is significant. If you set up your loader for Lawrence and then switch to Eagle you must adjust your shot drop WEIGHT(by adjusting the amount of volume in the charge bar)to have the same performance as far as velocity and pressure. Also if you're shooting competition and switch from Lawrence to Eagle the shot weight difference might put you over the legal limit.


So you do load by volume after using your scale to determine that you are using the correct volume measure?


superskeet wrote:
I use a scale(which nobody reloading should be without). NEVER load by volume! This topic alone on the difference in shot brands is reason enough, not to mention the difference in powders between lots . How many load recipes are given in volume? NONE!! Never trust a powder bushing chart or the shot drop stated on a charge bar. Weigh EVERYTHING! 219gr is 1/2 ounce for 410, but I load 232gr which is the max allowed by NSSA. They don't state the max amount of volume. Using the Lawrence shot gives me many more pellets over the Eagle at the same weight.

Reloading is serious business. Do it RIGHT!

_________________
Let us endeavor so to live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:01 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 125
Location: Orange Park, FL
Curly-Nohair wrote:
superskeet wrote:
The difference in weight between Lawrence and Eagle is significant. If you set up your loader for Lawrence and then switch to Eagle you must adjust your shot drop WEIGHT(by adjusting the amount of volume in the charge bar)to have the same performance as far as velocity and pressure. Also if you're shooting competition and switch from Lawrence to Eagle the shot weight difference might put you over the legal limit.


So you do load by volume after using your scale to determine that you are using the correct volume measure?


No, I use my scale to determine if I am dropping the correct weight. That is what a scale is for. The volume is only the end result of the desired weight and is variable because of the differences in shot and powder. Show me a recipe that uses volume as a means of measurement. The only time the term "volume" should be used in reloading is when it relates to the amount of space taken up in the shell and when adjusting the weight of a charge. For instance, some powder, shot, and wad combinations may not have a good volume(too little or too much) for a good load. In such a case you may want to try a different recipe, but you shouldn't alter a recipe to fix a volume issue. You increase or decrease the volume in a bushing or charge bar to adjust the weight of a charge, not adjust the volume.

_________________
Former Member US Navy Skeet Shooting Team
NSSA Level 1 Instructor
NSSA Life Member
NRA Member


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:42 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 21486
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
Say it however you like, but you are measuring a volume with the bar that ends up with the weight you want. Until you have a bar that self-adjusts its volume based upon a weighing device that is built in, you are dropping a volume.

_________________
Let us endeavor so to live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:46 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 125
Location: Orange Park, FL
Curly-Nohair wrote:
Say it however you like, but you are measuring a volume with the bar that ends up with the weight you want. Until you have a bar that self-adjusts its volume based upon a weighing device that is built in, you are dropping a volume.


I don't know what kind of scale you're using, but my scale measures weight. I'm still looking for that recipe that tells what volume of powder and shot to drop.

_________________
Former Member US Navy Skeet Shooting Team
NSSA Level 1 Instructor
NSSA Life Member
NRA Member


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:54 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 3723
Location: Annapolis, MD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ

_________________
Ceteris paribus, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:05 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:42 am
Posts: 125
Location: Orange Park, FL
The terminology used is powder drop and shot drop. In order for something to drop it has to have gravity and weight. All the volume in the world will not drop if it has no weight.

_________________
Former Member US Navy Skeet Shooting Team
NSSA Level 1 Instructor
NSSA Life Member
NRA Member


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:24 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:28 am
Posts: 114
I dropped two 1-oz. loads using the PW #5 shot bushing for 1 oz loads, 1 using Winchester 7-1/2 shot and one using Lawrence 7-1/2 shot. The Winchester shot weighed 438.9 grains and had 342 pellets, the Lawrence Brand shot weighed 440.1 grains and had 339 pellets. (1 oz = 437.5 grains.) Not even sure why I did this but the shot bushing which is done by volume is very close to the scale. FYI, I weighed 6 pellets and they varied from 1.1 grains to 1.4 grains. The Winchester was 1 pellet heavy and the Lawrence Brand was 2 pellets heavy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:51 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:09 pm
Posts: 21
Location: SE PA
I say Eagle Magnum 'cuz that is what the local stores carry. The #8 seems to work just fine for my trapshooting habit.

_________________
Confounding everyone since 1957!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:51 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 3655
1 oz Eagle 7 1/2, 18.2 grains of CD, CB1100 wad, Rem hull and w209 primer in 12 gauge will break any target on a SC course. Been using it for years. Remember this is shotshell loading not benchrest rifle.




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 9fingers, Bing [Bot], bugslayer, cdbeagle, Contractshooter, D McMillen, dps3006, ebcjr, EdSy, Eriehunter, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, hopper810, jandat, jbmackey, K80Mystic, Keperkey, mactownbob, Majestic-12 [Bot], msmith, NewToClayMan, rubysue, Saltydog055, Station9, streamrocks, SWPAMike, Tidefanatic, Touchdown, TwoFourThree, WAGinVA


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
© 2017 Carbon Media Group Outdoors    - DMCA Notice