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 Post subject: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 am 
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Location: S E Kansas
Do you guys think one is better than the other ? Is Lawrence worth a few extra dollars a bag more ?
I am using 7.5 mag shot in 12ga 7/8oz loads at about 1250 fps for sporting clays, and I like to choke fairly tight, usually LM and MOD. Of course if the target has some real distance (40 plus yds), then I use a 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz 7.5 load.
Am I gaining anything by buying Lawrence over Eagle ?



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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:49 am 
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Location: Eastern Nebraska
The one thing that sets Gold Medals, STS, and AA apart from the $5-6.00 a box ammo is the shot. Most of them use the same wads. If the powder produces the desired velocity it is hard you say one is better than the other. Most of them use the same primer. Some hulls hold up better for reloading but I don't see how one is better for the first shot. That leaves: the payload. The ammo companies all think premium shot makes the ammo worth $3.00/box more. And, people buying the ammo evidently agree because they do buy it. If you are a reloader you can produce similar stuff with a much smaller premium than $3.00/box, in fact, more like $3-4.00/bag. Then the question comes: do you NEED this? Lots and lots of 100 straights have been shot from the 16 yard line with Eagle and even with reclaim. But as you move back (for trap or SC) shot quality gets more important.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:51 am 
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If you look on the patterning board Lawrence might have a little advantage, not so sure that the advantage will show up on a scorecard, unless your name is George Digweed.

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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:02 am
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Location: KS
Is Lawrence hard shot better than Eagle chill? Probably. Is Lawrence hard shot better than Eagle hard shot? Maybe, but I'm not good enough to see any difference on target.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:06 am 
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Interesting info
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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:06 am 
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retired2006 wrote:
I am using 7.5 mag shot in 12ga 7/8oz loads at about 1250 fps for sporting clays, and I like to choke fairly tight, usually LM and MOD.


For that load I would use the cheap shot and #8s.

retired2006 wrote:
if the target has some real distance (40 plus yds), then I use a 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz 7.5 load.


For those shots I would just buy a couple boxes of premium ammo, 1 1/8 ounce of 7 1/2s.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Location: Eastern Nebraska
Does Eagle make chill AND hard. I don't believe I have ever seen a bag labled either way. All the Eagle I have used (probably close to a ton over the last 5 years) has been labled Eagle Magnum. Magnum is one of those words that sound good (especially when firearms related) but has no specific numerical meaning. I have seen advertisements listing the Antimony content of Eagle but it is not at all clear if these are real numbers or just someone's assumption, or opinion of what they think Magnum means. Regardless, the chart posted above by Oregunner seems pretty informative. It measures actual hardness of several pellets of each. FWIW I happen to be the guy that donated the sample of Lawrence chilled for that testing. I had a couple very old bags on the back of the bench.

An interesting observation: Remington has publicly stated that the shot in Gun Clubs, F&C, and STS is 2, 4, 6% antimony, respectively. From the looks of the chart, they were not kidding, not dead on, but pretty close.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Location: Fairport NY
A long time ago, when shot Chilled shot was less than $10 a bag, so-called "Magnum" shot showed up, and we were charged a $1.00 "premium" price tag for this shot which supposedly was harder (than chilled) and gave improved patterns. (This was due to less pellet deformation) Also we learned that larger shot does not require as much antimony as smaller shot to give less pellet deformation.

We later learned that antimony was added to give improved hardness, and also learned that there were no specs on antimony content or hardness. But we continue to buy "magnum" shot with unspecified hardness or antimony content.

We really need some standards on this, as the name "magnum" shot doesn't adequately describe the quality of the shot we buy and use. The makers of ammo, lead shot, and SAAMI could be requested to perform this service. Apparently, though, we are satisfied with the status quo, rether than pushing for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:31 pm 
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BobK,

Not sure this is a SAAMI problem......not all this stuff is made in the good ol' US of A and/or by a member of SAAMI. Which means that SAAMI probably wouldn't have much control over it.......not sure why you would complain because by the chart posted by oregunner, at least Remington, Winchester and Federal seem to be in compliance with their own (SAAMI) standards.

Under Miscellaneous page 35 of the ANSI/SAAMI Z299.2 - 2015 (Shotshell Standards) the pellet weights/counts for 0.5%, 2%, 4% & 6% antimony are listed. Which nicely fits into the chart for Rem, Win and Fed ammunition.

When you could actually buy Remington shot, the antimony content was listed on the bag and in the literature supplied to their OEM's.

I am not sure that Lawrence, West Coast or Eagle are SAAMI members. If they are not members, then they can write on their bags of shot pretty much anything they want. Even then, Lawrence and West Coast are being truthful about their "Magnum" shot, again if you go by the chart posted.

There is a fellow over on 16ga.com, that did his own shot hardness test and while I don't remember his list being as complete as the one oregunner has posted, it followed along the same lines.

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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Unless I wish to pay high shipping rates to get better shot shipped in I'm pretty much limited to Eagle at the few places locally to carry shot. Hardness is less of an issue when it is take it or leave it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:35 pm 
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I use a lot of both. If you look at a handful of Eagle there seems to be more variation in size & fewer that measure true with a caliper. It’s fine for skeet & playing around at sporting. If keeping score I’ll use Lawrence.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:52 pm
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Location: Grayling, MI
I bought 8 bags of REM-STS HARD MAG shot labeled 6% antimony last spring. Very uniformed by visual inspection. Works great just like Lawrence and West cost EXTRA HARD MAG shot. The latter two have very in size more like 1/2 size up or down as I understand the spec's. Both work great and I use SKT & IC chokes the most for SC's. Would love to see some Black SUPER X shot for sale.

In these days of screw in chokes I just buy the best and use more chokes when needed even CYL. I like more even patterns than not but I use a 28ga or 410 90% of the time. What could I do with 400 plus pellets?

I should add all but one store I buy shot at (no shipping) carry one of the three I mentioned all extra hard mag shot the of brand is RIO by maximum 4%.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:56 pm 
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I have both Eagle and Lawrence. Absolutely the Lawrence is worth more to me. It is closer to the correct size. If I can I will buy it instead of the Eagle in the future. Where does one find Remington shot for sale?


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Location: Eastern Nebraska
A guy showed up at our state shoot with a trailer load. As I recall he charged about $38 a bag. That is the only time I have seen it for sale. It does indeed say 6% Antimony on the bag. It is the only shot I have ever bought that lists the actual % antimony. Of course the hardness in Oregunner's chart indicates a bit less than 6%. Other than STS, I belive Lawrence West Coast is the accepted gold standard. How much antimony does it have? Dunno- they advertise "6% antimonial equivalent." Sounds good, means ???


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:53 pm 
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West Coast and Lawrence shot, which are the same, are advertised as having "Equivalent Hardness Factor of: 4-5% Antimonial Lead Alloy." The STS shot better have 6% Antimony or Rem will have some 'splaining to do. I wish I could get my hands on some STS shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:07 pm 
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..........and if it doesn’t have exactly 6% antimony??

There isn’t anyone that could tell the difference between 3% and 6% antimony in lead shot unless you actually patterned it.

You would have to be proficient at 60 yard crossers and even then............

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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:11 pm 
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I used to be able to get some homemade shot. I worked fine. I was asked, "what size is it?" I replied, Length-wise or width-wise?" It worked fine in the 12 gauge. It bridged when I tried loading it in 20 gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:30 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
..........and if it doesn’t have exactly 6% antimony??

There isn’t anyone that could tell the difference between 3% and 6% antimony in lead shot unless you actually patterned it.

You would have to be proficient at 60 yard crossers and even then............
Some enterprising lawyer will bring a consumer class action lawsuit alleging deception. It will get settled and the lawyers will clean up and the consumers will get some sort of coupon good for a 50-cent/bag discount on future purchases of STS shot that has been re-labeled "6% antimonial equivalent."

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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Location: Boerne, Texas
I only shoot skeet, having loaded Lawrence, Eagle, Star, Champion, West Coast, Black Diamond, all listed as magnum shot, I can not tell the difference, I have been told that Star and Eagle #9 is smaller than the other brands #9 shot. I have plenty of Star shot on hand and will continue to use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Lawrence Shot vs Eagle Shot, what say you ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:13 pm 
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skeet1958 wrote:
I only shoot skeet, having loaded Lawrence, Eagle, Star, Champion, West Coast, Black Diamond, all listed as magnum shot, I can not tell the difference, I have been told that Star and Eagle #9 is smaller than the other brands #9 shot. I have plenty of Star shot on hand and will continue to use it.
If you only shoot skeet, Eagle #9 is all you need. The harder shot only comes to the fore when shooting at longer targets at trap and sporting clays. You will get no advantage shooting the more expensive shot at the short ranges at skeet.



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