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 Post subject: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:37 pm 
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I'm considering going to just one load for all my shooting, and I need some insight.

First, I only shoot informal skeet and 16 yard trap.

Second, I had quadruple bypass surgery in March of '14 and started loading 7/8 oz loads because I couldn't handle a lot of recoil. I liked them so much I never went back to heavier loads. I do as well or better with them than i did with the 9/8 oz loads.

Third, I have settled on a velocity of approx. 1250 for both. I've been loading 8's for trap and 9's for skeet. I've run a lot of 25 straights at trap with this load and a few at skeet. Completely my fault on skeet and not the load.

Here's the question...if I went to nothing but 8.5's and shot both games with the same load would I be hurting myself at trap by using the smaller shot? Or just leave well enough alone? Are the 8.5's too small?

I'm just looking to streamline my loading process and simplify my component list.



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Last edited by Tn Jim on Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Jim, I'm mostly a sporting guy now but back in the day I'd only shoot 7-1/2 for trap and 9 for skeet. Since I started reloading again a few years ago, I finally settled on #8 for everything and IMHO, they'll more than do the job at any of the games. A few months ago I was fooling around with a buddy's gun at the 27yd line and when I did my part, 1oz of #8 did it's part. YMMV


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:57 pm 
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While I only shoot 1 oz loads, I'm quite sure 7/8 oz loads of #8-1/2 would do the trick. Some years ago we had a Trap official for our area, shoot with us at our club on a regular basis. Believe it or not, he shot #8-1/2's at ALL distances, and was very good at it.

Personally I usually shoot #8's at 16 yards and #7-1/2's at handicap, but that's because I personally am a bit slow, and the handicap targets sometimes get out there a bit far. So the heavier shot does better at the longer distances.

I personally prefer #8-1/2 shot for Skeet, and really see no reason that it wouldn't do just fine for 16 yard trap. Best advice is to load up some and give it a try. I'm betting you won't be able to tell the difference in your averages.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:00 am 
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Yes for skeet, and so long as you are cracking the trap target long before the targex apex's out, you will be fine as well.

Hence in trap, you want to crack the target 16 yards out of the house/32 yards off the 16 yard line. The reason for this shot placement, if the targets are hooped correctly, then the target is going to be 14" higher that where it was once you pulled the trigger, and you can adjust the shotgun for that needed 14" differential.

Hence with the shotgun set to shoot 16" high, you just keep the bead kissing the bottom of the target as you make the shot on a straight way target at 32 yards out, and the target is going to climb right into the center of the Pattern with it gets there.

As for why some shoot the target much later/father out; wrong hold or look point, and/or shotgun not set up to shoot the needed 14"~18: high, and it;s a guessing game trying to shoot the target with a flat shooting gun since it way too much of a cover up to try to shoot the target as it still rising, and they try to time the trigger pull just before the target levels out or starting to drop back isntead. Hence way the hell out there, since the target only travels a max path of 50 yards before it hits the ground.
at 30" feet out to set the height of the targets, and speed is set so the target lands back to earth at the 50 yard mark.

Target needs to travel between 9'~10" at the set hoop @ 30' from base line (height setting distance), and the speed of the target is set so the target lands back to level earth at 49~50 yards if the trap house is adjusted correctly.
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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:49 am 
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Tn Jim

you could probably use 7/8 of 8's for everything and be very well set.

that is what I do with my 7/8 oz 1250 fps shells and use them for skeet, a quite a bit of sporting clays and 5 stand and 16 yard trap with no worries..

the ones I miss are the dummy pulling the triggers fault, not the load.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 am 
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I used to use #8 for everything but then I tried 7.5 for trap handicap and suddenly my handicap scores started to match or even beat my 16 yard scores. I'm only using 15.2 grains of e3 for my 1-1/8 ounce handicap loads which should be about 1100 fps. Low velocity 1 1/8 ounce loads are just as easy on your shoulder as normal velocity 1 oz loads and the 7.5 shot is effective at the longer yardage even though it started off at a lower velocity.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:14 am 
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For skeet- sure.
For trap- depends on the event. 8 1/2 will be fine for 16 yard singles and first shot on doubles (even 9 works for that.) If you shoot handicaps any further back than maybe the 18 or 19 you are starting to give away targets. Second shot on doubles will be a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:16 am 
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If you’re gonna use the smaller shot you probably need to pay attention to what you buy. Some like Eagle will measure small.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:17 am 
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I believe Remington was the first to make 8 1/2 and it was for 16yd trap. I shoot 3/4 oz loads for the same reason you're shooting 7/8oz loads, and it's even cheaper to reload. I think you'll find just as many breaks with the 3/4oz load.

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:35 am 
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I use my reloads for practice at all of the games. Those reloads are 3/4oz of 8.5 and they break targets at every distance. You might want to go one .005 tighter for trap.

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:30 am 
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As mentioned above, most of the South American shot, (Eagle and Starshot) run on the small side, so it's recommended that you purchase #8's in those brands, which will then run closer to the desired #8-1/2 size.

DLM

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:25 pm 
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I can tell you that I use #9 Eagle for first shot on doubles trap. It works fine. But, it is pretty easy to get the first one pretty fast on doubles. I spent some time with calipers measuring. Eagle does run a bit smaller than Lawrence. It seems to be about a 1/4 size. #8 Eagle is smaller than#8 Lawrence, but is still bigger than the spec for US made #8 1/2. Do keep on mind that lead shot is not a precision machined product. It varies in diameter, it ALL varies. The total range on the good quality stuff is narrower than on the lower grades. The middle of the range will usually be closer to the spec on the high quality stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:59 pm 
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In the scenario and all-around constraints described, I’d load 8’s for everything. As an all around load for most shotgunning games, I think 8’s are hard to beat. For informal 16 yard trap and skeet, I don’t think you give up anything at either game using 8’s. Just IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:03 pm 
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I don’t think I’ve ever missed a Skeet target because I was using #8 shot instead of #9; but I do feel like I lost some trap targets using 8.5s (dust instead of chips). In other words, I run 7/8 of #8 for everything, even though I can get 8.5 for cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:25 pm 
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By a odd turn of events, I picked up three bags of Eagle #8 about a year ago. I had put them away and figured I'd use them when my current bags of Lawrence were gone. It sounds like these may fill the bill. I saw a post on here recently about the Eagle running a little smaller in size, so I'll load some and see what they do. Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it.

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:18 pm 
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If I were going ot have just one load for everything, it would probably 1 oz of #8. You lose nothing on a skeet filed by shooting #8 shot.....except maybe in the 410.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:40 am
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1 oz. of 8 1/2's. More shot pellets and less recoil. I would bet that if you were given the shells without knowing which shell you were shooting, you would pick the 1200 fps. 1 oz. 8 1/2's over anything else for 16 yd. Skeet would be the same. If you went 7/8 oz. the 8 1/2's would be my choice also if you bump speed to 1250 fps.

If the bird is not in the 75% core of the pattern, you are relying on luck no matter the amount of shot, or size of it.

I would take the 87 more shot pellets of 8 1/2's over the 8's of 1 oz, for the larger size shot by .005 per shot pellet.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:11 am 
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Dano523 wrote:
Yes for skeet, and so long as you are cracking the trap target long before the targex apex's out, you will be fine as well.

Hence in trap, you want to crack the target 16 yards out of the house/32 yards off the 16 yard line. The reason for this shot placement, if the targets are hooped correctly, then the target is going to be 14" higher that where it was once you pulled the trigger, and you can adjust the shotgun for that needed 14" differential.

Hence with the shotgun set to shoot 16" high, you just keep the bead kissing the bottom of the target as you make the shot on a straight way target at 32 yards out, and the target is going to climb right into the center of the Pattern with it gets there.

As for why some shoot the target much later/father out; wrong hold or look point, and/or shotgun not set up to shoot the needed 14"~18: high, and it;s a guessing game trying to shoot the target with a flat shooting gun since it way too much of a cover up to try to shoot the target as it still rising, and they try to time the trigger pull just before the target levels out or starting to drop back isntead. Hence way the hell out there, since the target only travels a max path of 50 yards before it hits the ground.
at 30" feet out to set the height of the targets, and speed is set so the target lands back to earth at the 50 yard mark.

Target needs to travel between 9'~10" at the set hoop @ 30' from base line (height setting distance), and the speed of the target is set so the target lands back to level earth at 49~50 yards if the trap house is adjusted correctly

Wow, there's a lot to unpack there Dano ...

The only thing I can add to that is that it has been my experience (either real, imagined, or perceived etc.) that when I shoot 16-yard targets with 1-ounce #7½ (prior to them apexing out) I notice that I have to hold a tad higher on the target (when compared to #8).

I've attributed this to the #7½ shot pellets being heavier than #8 pellets, and dropping faster due to gravity and changing the "arc" of the trajectory of the shot swam.

I don't know if this is the case, but it seems plausible, and the difference in how much I float the target pre-apex seems pretty repeatable to me when I switch back and forth between #8 and #7½.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:51 am 
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I've attributed this to the #7½ shot pellets being heavier than #8 pellets, and dropping faster due to gravity and changing the "arc" of the trajectory of the shot swam.

Thinking we better drag out the physics book on this one :)

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 Post subject: Re: Just one load? aka: are 8.5's enough for trap
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:42 pm 
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HTSmith wrote:
I've attributed this to the #7½ shot pellets being heavier than #8 pellets, and dropping faster due to gravity and changing the "arc" of the trajectory of the shot swam.

Thinking we better drag out the physics book on this one :)


yes, you do need to visit the physics book, because everyone who studied (and passed) physics knows that those 7.5s will drop at the same rate as 9's, 4's, 2's, etc. At a rate of 9.8 m/s/s, or meters per second squared.




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