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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:13 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1237
Ok. This link will take you to Alliants data. This is for 12 ga, 2.75 in fed gold medal hulls, which I think is your best approximation.
I think I am understanding you saying that you are measuring your shot with a 1 and 1/8 oz Mac dropper, which sounds to me like a scoop? This is likely to be your problem. These things are almost always calibrated to a lower volume and weight then truth, so that they are safe from a liability standpoint. You need to be weighing you are shot to get an actual 1 in 1/8 ounce, 492 grains I think. You should never trust the bushings or shot droppers to give you an accurate shot amount, until you have weighed 10 or so drops during a reloading cycle and taking their average to see what you're really getting.

If in fact you are using a shot dropper, I expect what's happening is you're launching a light payload it is therefore not cycling the gun.

1-1/8oz. It has 12s3 and waaf114. Use the data for any you like, primers of w209, cci209, cci209m. Actually I just looked at all of the primers on this load with red dot, they all have lowest pressures that I would feel comfortable substituting a noble sport primer for the listed primer. However the maximum red. Used in any of the loads is 20 grains, I would not exceed that. Try reloading you're 20 grain red. That didn't cycle, ensure that you have weighed the payload and see if that was your problem, and maybe run the end of a pain around the powder skirt on your wad to make sure that it is flared out and not getting any Blow by.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... 3&gauge=12
Will put more in next post, on phone and do t want to lose all this...




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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:20 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1237
Okay looking at the Green dot Powder with that same load and again this is federal Gold Medal hull 1 and 1/8 oz shot, 12s3 wad, I think you could go 22.5 grains or even the 23 grain load listed with the rim 209p. All the pressures are low and that last one was 23 grains is only 8800 PSI which I would feel safe substituting a Nobel sport primer for.


Last edited by Dave in AZ on Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:28 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:43 am
Posts: 739
In my loads I find 20 grs of Red dot far more than I need for targets back to the fence !
In a straight wall hull with 492 grs of shot those 12S2's both Feds and CB work just fine .
FWIW drop down about 2 grs with a Fed 209A and it will serve you well !


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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:32 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:21 pm
Posts: 20
Dave in AZ wrote:
Ok. This link will take you to Alliants data. This is for 12 ga, 2.75 in fed gold medal hulls, which I think is your best approximation.
I think I am understanding you saying that you are measuring your shot with a 1 and 1/8 oz Mac dropper, which sounds to me like a scoop? This is likely to be your problem. These things are almost always calibrated to a lower volume and weight then truth, so that they are safe from a liability standpoint. You need to be weighing you are shot to get an actual 1 in 1/8 ounce, 492 grains I think. You should never trust the bushings or shot droppers to give you an accurate shot amount, until you have weighed 10 or so drops during a reloading cycle and taking their average to see what you're really getting.

If in fact you are using a shot dropper, I expect what's happening is you're launching a light payload it is therefore not cycling the gun.

1-1/8oz. It has 12s3 and waaf114. Use the data for any you like, primers of w209, cci209, cci209m. Actually I just looked at all of the primers on this load with red dot, they all have lowest pressures that I would feel comfortable substituting a noble sport primer for the listed primer. However the maximum red. Used in any of the loads is 20 grains, I would not exceed that. Try reloading you're 20 grain red. That didn't cycle, ensure that you have weighed the payload and see if that was your problem, and maybe run the end of a pain around the powder skirt on your wad to make sure that it is flared out and not getting any Blow by.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... 3&gauge=12
Will put more in next post, on phone and do t want to lose all this...



I’m using a MEC 302 118 charge bar that is dropping 1.08 ounces of #7.5 magnum shot. I had a different thread on this... thought it was normal to drop that amount. The shell is stacking perfectly to the crimp. I can certainly weigh/ hand load the shot and see if it makes a difference.

Quote:
.... maybe run the end of a pain around the powder skirt....

I don’t understand... auto correct may have changed something.


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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:38 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1237
Okay I looked at the other options that you have which would be from the Alliance Data the cheddite hall and the fiocchi. I would expect both of them to be the same or slightly smaller volume then the actual shell you're using. I'm going to keep saying she'll instead of h u l l, because my voice recognition on my phone that I'm talking this text to doesn't recognize that word worth a crap. And that's why the spelling is terrible to, sorry.

Anyways the Reloading Data uses less powder for both of those shells, and gives still low pressures in the 7000 to 9000 PSI range. I don't see any advantage to you and treating the shell as a Jedi door fiocchi instead of a federal gold medal. I would go with my prior recommendation.

I've seen your on here responding quickly, so I'd love to hear once you're able to weigh how much shot you're getting from that Dipper if that was the problem. Also I'm going to give you a link to a Blog I wrote where I measure the internal volume of a bunch of 12 gauge shells, including that Federal and a Rio and a cheddite and you can use that as comparison for your decisions also.

https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/12-ga-2-75-hull-volumes/

And heres one on the fed rio hulls.
https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/new-fede ... s-cutaway/

I see you posted while I was dictating this. Yes, try putting the actual amount of shot in, 1 and 1/8 oz, and see if that helps. As far as the skirt of the WOD, I'm saying to use the round end of a knife or pen or pencil and just stick it inside the thin plastic lip that sits on the powder, and running around pushing the lip out Words which will flare it to be slightly wider in diameter. When you push it down on top of the powder this will help gas from escaping which could also be part of your problem. Since I don't have one of those new shells in front of me to measure the internal diameter, and they appear to have more volume then other shells we are used to, it could be that is 1000 or so wider in diameter and a loose fit for that wad.


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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:42 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1237
Also, how new is that a 5? A lot of semi-autos don't function very well with lighter loads until they've been shot for a hunter 200 rounds of something pretty heavy. Then they start to be able to cycle lighter loads as the action wears in. If it's a new A5, then taking a little bit of oil and making sure you boiled up the boat rails good as well as the magazine tube where the spring slides on it, and another thing that sometimes helps is put a little steel wool on a cleaning brush and spin it a few times on a drill in your chamber to make sure that the chamber is very smooth to Aid in Shell extraction.

Just last week my son's semi-auto Weatherby sa-08 20 gauge was not reliably cycling a 1500 FPS 7/8 ounce load of heavyweight. I took the gun apart and did like I just mentioned, the next day everything cycle great.


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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:03 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:28 am
Posts: 1237
I just re-read your post up above and see you actually have Winchester 209 primers. I would use those!

Well that was a fun way to spend some time at the bar ;) gave me something to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Hull identification help
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:04 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:21 pm
Posts: 20
Dave in AZ wrote:
I just re-read your post up above and see you actually have Winchester 209 primers. I would use those!

Well that was a fun way to spend some time at the bar ;) gave me something to do.



I have a few Winchester primers, but not enough to do anything with....
I appreciate your time, I will update this thread when I get back at it again.




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