ShotGunWorld Shotguns

It is currently Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:32 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:17 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:05 pm
Posts: 21
Location: NE Illinois
Hello,
New to reloading what’s the difference between WinAA and WinAAHS hulls?
Thanks




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:30 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 4753
Location: Annapolis, MD
In theory (i.e., according to the reloading data), there is no difference. In practice, with bulky powder, such as Red Dot, Promo, Clays and Clay Dot, the HS hulls present stack heights that are too tall and create a whole host of crimp and other problems.  There are remedies for the problems, mostly entailing using a special wad made by Downrnage (the DRA wads) or using a denser powder. Let me know if you want more because this just scratched the surface.

_________________
Ceteris paribus, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:34 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 806
bodackis wrote:
Hello,
New to reloading what’s the difference between WinAA and WinAAHS hulls?
Thanks

Google is your friend. There's a lot of information out there if you're willing to do a little research.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:40 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
wait... red dot doesn't fit the HS hulls without special wads?
sonofabitch I got lots of shells to pull down.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:11 pm 
Diamond Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:04 pm
Posts: 1455
Location: Upstate NY
Vette Jockey2 wrote:
Google is your friend. There's a lot of information out there if you're willing to do a little research.


Google is not my friend at all! These are the folks that we should be worried about, and avoiding,..

Duckduckgo is a much better choice, IMO.

The web has a wonderful amount of reloading data. I used to depend on a big stack of reloading books in the shop; now I look for the latest data from the component manufacturers on line. It sure is convenient!

_________________
"The freaks can't be normally formalized, nor can we be formally normalized. What we want is complete weirdification."
KD2TTM
Member: NRA, New York Rifle and Pistol Association


Last edited by desmobob on Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:17 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:44 am
Posts: 112
Location: Los Angeles, CA
bodackis wrote:
Hello,
New to reloading what’s the difference between WinAA and WinAAHS hulls?
Thanks


I am also somewhat new at reloading (2 months). I have WinAA hulls.

There is absolutely no difference as far as reloading goes. Get either one, reload them exactly the same using the same recipes and wads and the same setup on your reloader.

And just to help you with your acronyms, you really mean to say "Win AA-CF" vs "Win AA-HS"

or old style vs new style

I also load Remington Gun Clubs exactly the same as I reload the WinAA.

I only speak for 12ga with claybuster wads, which is the only actual reloads I've done.

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...please forgive my silly questions
Browning Citori 725 Sporting
MEC 9000
Google search to figure out how to use it


Last edited by md2020 on Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:19 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12120
Location: Kansas
Basic difference is that the old style are a one piece compression formed hull that tapers toward the base from the inside. The HS hull is two piece with the outside case being a straight cylinder. It contains a separate base wad that simulates the internal taper of the old style hull. The two types also seem to be made of different plastic. Remington Hulls (STS, Nitro, and Gun Club) are one piece hulls that are similar to the old style Winchester.

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:43 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:46 pm
Posts: 1208
+1 for Casonet.

The CF (compression formed) hulls are tapered about .008" at the top to load easier in the gun. The hull and base are formed into one piece.

The HS hulls are a straight tube with parallel sides that is cut off at the correct length, and a base is then attached.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:42 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:05 pm
Posts: 21
Location: NE Illinois
Thanks everyone for the replies, I really appreciate it it helped a lot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:51 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 4753
Location: Annapolis, MD
OK, they why does Hornady give special crimp die adjustment instructions for the AAHS hulls. if they were the same, this wouldn't be needed, would it.

_________________
Ceteris paribus, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:12 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
I dunno, my 366 was set up for AA's when I bought it back in 1990ish and it's been upped and downed about 45-50 thousand times since then.
anyhow I'd imagine you need to adjust for the NEW AA HULLS because they are thicker plastic at the crimp area.
I wish they weren't but they are what they are.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:19 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:23 pm
Posts: 12
Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand, the big problem is that certain wads catch on the inner sleeve of the HS hull as it is seated. The old hulls didn't have the sleeve as they were made tapered, 1 solid piece.

I load both and so far don't have any problem. I use clay dot-red dot w CB 1100 wad & 1 oz. #8 shot. The only problems I had was using CB 4100 and had to adjust the wad seating higher in the hull. Then the crimp was too high and was crushing the hulls only on the HS hulls. Those worked fine in my FGM hulls.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:21 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
Posts: 5680
Nebs wrote:
OK, they why does Hornady give special crimp die adjustment instructions for the AAHS hulls. if they were the same, this wouldn't be needed, would it.


Easy, and it due to Win using spherical powder for the 12 gauge loads, came up with the perfect pressure powder amount they had with the standard win wads, and just shorten the hull to get a perfect crimp. So the 12 gauge HS hull, are shorter than the CF and STS hull. Hence if you have the 12 gauge machine set up for CF and STS hull, but swap to HS hulls, your going to get a center hole in the crimp, until you adjust the pre-crimp, the sizer, and the taper crimper down to resolve the HS shorter hull problem.

CF hulls in the back ground, HS hull in foreground, and the machine is still set up to load the longer hulls (CF and STS hulls).
Image
Note, slinging the cat to see if it will stick to the wall king of thing in regards to why the HS hull are shorter than the CF and STS hull lenghts that were the standard for decades. It may be that the new machinery was set up to cut the hull shorter to start with, but really believe that is was the HS hulls that have slightly more volume than the CF hull of the same length, and why the hulls where shortened in the first place (to get ideal crimps with the standard win wads, without the shot rattling too much). This way same standard wads cold be used for both the older CF and new HS hulls.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:29 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Posts: 382
Location: NE South Dakota
I believe most of the change in the crimp was actually on the crimp starter station. You have to move the crimp starter down so it closes the shell down to about the width of a pencil eraser if I remember the instructions. It helps not leave that pellet sized gap on the final crimp.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:44 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:37 pm
Posts: 1084
Location: colorado
I feel that there is a difference in how the loads stack. I like to use one size larger payload wad in the aa-hs vs a compression formed aa. So for a 1 oz load I use 1 1/8 wad, 7/8 I use a 1 oz wad. Better crimps that way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:44 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 647
First off a new reloader will more than likely not come across many CF hulls unless he gets handed down a stash from someone getting out of it. You occasionally come across some well used ones in the buckets. AACF hulls have the same volume as AAHS hulls but for some mystery they don't load the same. Fill one hull with water and it fits into the other exactly the same. A few years ago their was a thread on another website about this and one poster claimed they load the same using the same wads and RED Dot powder. As the thread went along and shells were cut open it showed the spec wad legs to look like they were 10 lbs of crap stuffed into a 5 lb bag. Whether this affects performance I can't say but it didn't appear to be the best combination of components. As has been stated on here a 100 times When using bulky Alliant type powders in the 32 to 33 bushing size DRA wads in HS hulls will make things fit much nicer and less likely to dome up crimps. The other method that works well is the 1 1/8 wad for 1 oz reloads. In the long run this is cheaper than using DRAs because CB wads can be easier to find and run less $.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:27 am 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12120
Location: Kansas
Another problem is that the HS basewad has a shoulder on it and when you try to set a wad too low, the base of the wad hits the shoulder of the basewad and something has got to give at that point. At my club the only HS hulls that picked up are the .410 and 28. Most of the 20s and 12s get trashed in favor of Remingtons and to some extent, Federals. I have recently sold many thousands of CF hulls and am pretty much sold out with the exception of 20 ga. I think that based on the calls that I had, I could have sold 10X the number that I had

_________________
"We pulled the trigger, the safety went forward, both barrels fired almost together, the gun opened, ejectors kicked the fired cases over our shoulder ...the most completely automatic gun we ever fired" Elmer Keith- Shotguns by Keith


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:39 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 647
Image

Dra 1 oz on left Factory Heavy 1 1/8 on right. 95% of my reloading has been with HS hulls. I'm well over reloading 50,000 HS hulls and never had a wad hang up on the basewad. I once had a garbage bag full of "Silver bullets" and really didn't see any advantage to them because my HS loads worked/crimped fine. I'm not saying they weren't a better design but I can collect new HS hulls anytime and have 4 wad boxes filled with them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:11 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 647
Keep in mind that their is several versions of HS hulls. I avoid any with GA stamped on the brass and only use ones marked HS. After splitting the brass and inspecting the base wad the GA stamped hulls generally had what I'll describe as a 1 locking ring, the HS stamped brass has 3 of these that secure it to the hull. I assume the GAs are earlier versions of the new design. Others on this site can describe the hull markings on the AA emblem but I don't. To make it more confusing I've recently come across new 1oz Lite recoil hulls that have NR stamped on them. After inspection they appear the same as the late model HS stamped brass and I've had an Email confirmation from Winchester that they are reloadable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WinAA- WinAAhS
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:06 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 4753
Location: Annapolis, MD
casonet wrote:
Another problem is that the HS basewad has a shoulder on it and when you try to set a wad too low, the base of the wad hits the shoulder of the basewad and something has got to give at that point. At my club the only HS hulls that picked up are the .410 and 28. Most of the 20s and 12s get trashed in favor of Remingtons and to some extent, Federals. I have recently sold many thousands of CF hulls and am pretty much sold out with the exception of 20 ga. I think that based on the calls that I had, I could have sold 10X the number that I had
i'm left to conclude you have no idea what you are talking about.



_________________
Ceteris paribus, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 2LegsBetter, 5String, 67galaxie, 870Slugger, AJ-M12, Banshee, Bing [Bot], Bonanza, buster45, castnblast2, cheecho1960, Curly N, dannyd93140, Dirtman, drawdc, ebcjr, Eric719, Flyingtargets!, geometric, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, hoytshooter, HusqvarnaSweden, ithacanut, jims, John Henry, Jta5er, jwr50, KRIEGHOFFK80, krimmie, lettman, longshanx, Majestic-12 [Bot], McFarmer, md2020, mfm22, Mike Foley, mikeydio, misterdom, muddyduck33, Mule Driver, NailNinja, noweil, Old No7, OldStufferA5#1911, oneounceload, oyeme, paracord, Perdiz, piano2ner, pintail_drake2004, Pullandmark, saskbooknut, Schnurb, shacked, shootingcajun, shotgunsportsusa, SHughes, Skeet_Man, SnowRider1, southdakbearfan, Stk218, strut64, Stuck-N-Kali, Supertex1978, SuperXOne, timps, twin rivers, Virginian, wjonessc, Woodsie131, x_count, Y_Knot


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group    - DMCA Notice