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 Post subject: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 532
With the component "Shortage" I just ordered a lead mold to make buckshot.
https://www.martysarms.com/
I load 3" coyote loads and I am about out.
I have 200 pounds of lead and a lead pot and LOTS of time.
My load is.

"Just FYI this is a BPI load.
I use Rio blue 3" hull Rio primers
MG 42 wad.
37 gr steel powder
41 pellets of lead F that just short of 1 1/2 oz.
Magnospeed is 1430fps
I shoot an 870 super express 3 1/2 30" barrel.
A dead coyote extra full extended ported choke.
And a 3500M Stoeger 28" extra full cremator choke.
Very good pattern at 50 yards and I routinely kill coyotes DRT out to 75 yards."

The mold makes about 24 pellets at a time.
So it's a good thing I have lots of time.
I went with .21 instead of .22 just because.
Maybe I can get 1 or 2 more shot in ???
{hs#



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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:40 pm
Posts: 299
Location: NE Massachusetts
No kidding---this will require a lot of time! I have a Sharpshooter #4 Buck mold, and it takes forever to get enough shot. Lots and lots of clipping sprue; and you generate about 5 times as much sprue as shot. The good news is that your cast shot should be way harder and more effective than swaged shot, especially if you use a bullet alloy and water quench.


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:08 am 
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The lead is from a police shooting indoor range.
Then melted down into one pound ingots.

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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:54 am
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Location: Western Carolina - foothills to the Great Smoky Mtns!
Off topic I apologize but, How’re you callin’ dem yotes in that close? Here in the forests, it is a real feat to draw one close enough - and into a sufficient opening no less - for a good shot with a rifle. Anyone that bags one with a bow ‘round these parts goes to the front of the line for bragging rights!

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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:29 am 
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Up nort and wes, we have big open country for sure. Most of the coyotes are shot 150 to 300 yards with a rifle.
But in windy or limited vision like snowstorms, we hit the deeper coulees and heaver cover. I have used my coyote loads out to OVER 70 yards with good success.

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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:25 pm
Posts: 174
Location: Florida
Looks like a nice mould: may have to get one.


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:46 am
Posts: 391
Well you had better find something else to do because you will empty a 20 pound Lee pot in about an hour then another hour or so clipping the sprue off the ball. Throw the balls in a rock tumbler for 12 ish hours with some graphite and your ready to load. 20 pounds of lead should get you around 200 rounds worth of balls depending on your load.

I ice water quench my shot just to make it a little harder, a good pair of flush cutters makes short work of the sprue then the 12 hours in a rock tumbler (I use a Harbor Freight tumbler) cleans up the sprue and any mold lines quite nice.


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1306
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
try opening hot and bouncing them off the bench from about 18"s high right out of the mold.
the graphite peening will fix the dents.


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:56 pm
Posts: 25
870Slugger wrote:
With the component "Shortage" I just ordered a lead mold to make buckshot.
I went with .21 instead of .22 just because.
Maybe I can get 1 or 2 more shot in ???
{hs#


Run em in a tumbler overnight and it might make your .21 sized a bit smaller enabling you to stuff another one in there. I do it with my number 4 buck cast shot because I suck at getting well rounded pellets out of my mold, and a few hours in the tumbler rounds them off pretty nicely. Plus, buckshot in a tumbler makes a heavenly sound...


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
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The Lee is the better mold,since it has the sprue cutting built in for the top balls, and as you bend the the balls from each other, they will break free and will not need to use flush cutters to remove their sprues. If you don't have the hand strength to break the balls away from each other since you are using tinned lead that has made the lead harder, then you can mod cutters to snip the balls a parts from the sides, since no sprue's between the balls that need to be removed as well.
https://youtu.be/eKV7lfj4-TI

On the mold you bought, going to be spending a lot of time with end cutters to get a clean cut at the balls removing the excess lead, cutting the sprues away from each ball instead.
Image

Same problem with other molds, since you need to use end cutters for a clean cut at the ball, so them means that you are having to work from the excess lead side with the cutters, and not the ball side on the cuts.
Plus, if you are water dropping, then a lot of excess lead on the spures that will be hitting the water, which means that lead sprues have to be dried again, before they can go into back into the pot. Hence with sprue cutter on the mold, what is cut off on the handle openning, is still dry, and can right back into the pot to be reheated again right away.
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Truth is, some times the single row of ball molds with sprue cutter is better/faster even when you are casting less balls each time, since it will cut the spures off the balls before they are ejected from the mold (which the nubs are still dry and can go back right into the pot), and you don't have to go back to break the balls away from each other, or cut sprues by hand in the end. Hence once they hit the water drop bullet out of the mold, they are ready to go after being dried alone, with no further handling or work.
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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
Posts: 5682
PoorRichRichard wrote:
I do it with my number 4 buck cast shot because I suck at getting well rounded pellets out of my mold


Yep, on buck shot molds that are putting out a lot of balls each time, hard to hold the mold at the correct heat, and as the mold changes heat, will produce different size balls. So just a matter of getting a rhythm to the casting to begin with, and then dialing in the pot heat for the needed hold temp for that constant rhythm.

So depending on what pot you have, might be time to go PID Thermostat heat controller on it, so it will hold the lead heat at a constant temp as you keep your rhythm casting.


As for tumbling the shot afterwards, double edge sword. Hence works well to get the ball round with a touch of either wax or graphite on them to slow down the oxidation, but at the same time due to the amount of lead that is collected on the inside walls of the tumbler bowel (which can be a PITA to removed before you use it for say polishing cases next), really want a dedicated tumbler just for that.


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:07 am 
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Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:46 am
Posts: 391
Dano523 wrote:
Truth is, some times the single row of ball molds with sprue cutter is better/faster even when you are casting less balls each time, since it will cut the spures off the balls before they are ejected from the mold (which the nubs are still dry and can go back right into the pot), and you don't have to go back to break the balls away from each other, or cut sprues by hand in the end. Hence once they hit the water drop bullet out of the mold, they are ready to go after being dried alone, with no further handling or work.


This statement is about as false as you can get. I can cast 3 times as much with a Marty's mold as you can cast with a single row ball mold this means I'm emptying my pot faster with a lot less mold fills. Sure I have to cut sprues but I can do that anywhere so I spend a lot less time setting in front of the pot. In the end it's about the same amount of time spent between more mold fills or snipping balls. Guys make the biggest deal out of snipping balls you would think that if snipping balls off the sprue is such a big deal then casting with any mold would be just to much of a hassle and they would just buy there shot.

Tumbling balls is a brass tumbler is a noisy deal but if you do do it your not going to have a lead dust problem or lead imbedded in the bowl as all tumbling does is smooth out the sprue area and any mold lines, you may get small pieces of lead in the tumbler but no dust. Tumbling won't change the ball diameter, even tumbling balls with steel ball bearings for 24 hours doesn't change the ball diameter. A rock tumbler works better as its quiet and the rolling action smooth's the balls better.


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:06 pm
Posts: 17
Muddydogs wrote:
Dano523 wrote:
Truth is, some times the single row of ball molds with sprue cutter is better/faster even when you are casting less balls each time, since it will cut the spures off the balls before they are ejected from the mold (which the nubs are still dry and can go back right into the pot), and you don't have to go back to break the balls away from each other, or cut sprues by hand in the end. Hence once they hit the water drop bullet out of the mold, they are ready to go after being dried alone, with no further handling or work.


This statement is about as false as you can get. I can cast 3 times as much with a Marty's mold as you can cast with a single row ball mold this means I'm emptying my pot faster with a lot less mold fills. Sure I have to cut sprues but I can do that anywhere so I spend a lot less time setting in front of the pot. In the end it's about the same amount of time spent between more mold fills or snipping balls. Guys make the biggest deal out of snipping balls you would think that if snipping balls off the sprue is such a big deal then casting with any mold would be just to much of a hassle and they would just buy there shot.

Tumbling balls is a brass tumbler is a noisy deal but if you do do it your not going to have a lead dust problem or lead imbedded in the bowl as all tumbling does is smooth out the sprue area and any mold lines, you may get small pieces of lead in the tumbler but no dust. Tumbling won't change the ball diameter, even tumbling balls with steel ball bearings for 24 hours doesn't change the ball diameter. A rock tumbler works better as its quiet and the rolling action smooth's the balls better.


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 Post subject: Re: It's a good thing I have lots of time...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:41 am
Posts: 5682
Way I look at it, your not done, until the buck shot is ready to be put in the hulls during their reloads. If you do need to tumble after cutting sprues to remove the last of the nubs or mold that is casting out of round, then that is even more time that has to be counted into the mix.

So with single line mold with Sprue cutter(that you are putting the cut sprues back into the mold at the same time your casting and easy to control the heat of the mold), once the buck shot leaves the mold and cools down/dried out from the water bucket drop, it's ready to go.

If we take the lee mold that will cut the sprues, and a mater of either bending the balls apart, or nipping that will not end up with nubs tabs (that would require extra tumbling to remove them), may be a wash between the single one line mold and the three line ball mold with the added buckshot separation from each other after the drops. But you are having to handle the buck shot more.

But when you add in having to cut the pour spurs after the buck shot cools down, and even tumbling times if you don't have clean cuts at each sprue snips on the ball or out of round buck shot from not controlling the mold temp, then no way you are going to be faster in the end that the lee or single line mold that do have sprue cutters.

As for emptying the pot faster when the mold does not have the pour sprue cutter to start with, hence when 1/8 of the lead you are pouring to cast is not going back into the pot during that casting to be used at the same casting time (the cut sprues), not hard to understand why. Hence a bit over exaggeration, but its like me saying that I can empty a pot faster when pouring ingots out of it, then casting into buckshot or bullet molds instead.

So, kind of like casting bullets, where you have to add in the time of either running them through a waxing sizer, or powder coating and sizing after you are done casting, before you have a finished bullets ready to be reload instead. Simply, the devil is in the details, and if you just clock the time is takes to get 1K of buck shot from casting to being ready to use in the shell reloads, all the extra after the fact sprue and nub cutting, and even having to tumble the shot to clean up, really adds up over just casting time alone.




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