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 Post subject: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:29 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 10:12 am
Posts: 128
Location: Iowa
I am wanting to try some 3/4oz loads for trap practice. I only have Extra Lite powder on hand and Winchester 209 primers. The load guide calls for Remington Primers. I am new at reloading and not comfortable changing the recipe without some advice.

Is it safe to replace the Remington primer with the Winchester primers I have?




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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:44 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:10 am
Posts: 204
Alliant lists a 3/4 recipe for Winchester hulls and win209. I have emailed Alliant with substitution questions before and they have responded with the information I needed to make a decision.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:09 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
Posts: 873
john54 wrote:
I am wanting to try some 3/4oz loads for trap practice. I only have Extra Lite powder on hand and Winchester 209 primers. The load guide calls for Remington Primers. I am new at reloading and not comfortable changing the recipe without some advice.

Is it safe to replace the Remington primer with the Winchester primers I have?

First, and foremost, I am NOT advising you what to do. That said, I would make the substitution you are asking about without the slightest hesitation.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:10 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:52 am
Posts: 177
Recent guidance (in the past month) to me from Alliant regarding primer sustitution was that as long as the recipe pressure was between 6500-8500 psi, any primer could be safely substituted.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:12 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:02 am
Posts: 15
I suppose you need to study the characteristics of both materials, and then compare the proportions of using the primer. It seems to me that the materials should be interchangeable, but you need to be careful.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:59 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 10:12 am
Posts: 128
Location: Iowa
Thanks for the quick responses. I had no idea Alliant would answer individual questions. I have sent them the question just to make sure.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:08 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:54 pm
Posts: 12335
Location: Kansas
No. You need to pick up your phone and call them and talk to someone. Nobody is going to bite off your head. They are nice people! Emails go into a black hole.

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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:56 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:52 am
Posts: 177
Every time I have called, they answered the phone quickly as well.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:50 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 10:12 am
Posts: 128
Location: Iowa
Thanks again, I'll call and see what they have to say.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:46 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:10 am
Posts: 204
casonet wrote:
No. You need to pick up your phone and call them and talk to someone. Nobody is going to bite off your head. They are nice people! Emails go into a black hole.
I’ve had them respond to multiple emails. What I like about email is that I’ve got their response in writing.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 4788
Location: Annapolis, MD
In a 3/4 oz 12 ga load? I would not hesitate to use the Win primer instead of the Rem. It will take something more, a lot more, than a primer change to get the pressure anywhere near the danger zone.

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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:55 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
Posts: 5870
Location: Northern Virginia
As much as I love Alliant powders, until recently, they've only ever published data for matching hulls and primers, ie, Win hulls and Primer, or Rem hull and primer, etc. The fact is, very few reloaders load that way. Recently they have started publishing a few mixed hull/primer combos, but they should do a lot more!

Especially for loading Remington hulls with Win primers, since Rem primers are so expensive and a lot of shooters avoid them.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:54 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:41 pm
Posts: 332
Alliant has always been helpful on questions of recipes and substitutions. For years they had Ben Amonette as a go to guy on substitutions and such. He was very helpful and responsive. I always appreciated he would actually give an answer not just another general boilerplate response. I am glad to hear they are still willing to give advice. Not so common these days.

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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:22 pm 
Limited Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:59 pm
Posts: 481
Location: SC Lowcountry
Nebs wrote:
In a 3/4 oz 12 ga load? I would not hesitate to use the Win primer instead of the Rem. It will take something more, a lot more, than a primer change to get the pressure anywhere near the danger zone.


THIS^^^

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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:17 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:04 pm
Posts: 2875
I have been using Win primers in place of Remington for years. No mishaps ever. I don't know anyone that ever had access to Rem. primers, too much $. Don't worry about it.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:11 pm 
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Location: Annapolis, MD
^^Not this.

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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:30 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:18 pm
Posts: 54
First, I don't have any means of measuring pressure. However I do have a chronograph and do shoot a lot of Skeet and some Trap. I have used CCI, Winchester, and Cheddite primers and have not seen and significant change in velocity when changing between these primers. Deviations I've observed are in the range or 30 fps for a 1200 fps goal. IMO this is a strong indication that the pressure will be very similar. IMO if you are using standard primers you should be able to substitute without issues as long as you take the time to start at the minimum charge and work up until you get the velocity/lead that you normally shoot with. Note, I ALWAYS work my loads to 1200 fps and stop there, because I have mucho problems adapting to new Lead requirements.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:06 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am
Posts: 4788
Location: Annapolis, MD
scooter123 wrote:
First, I don't have any means of measuring pressure. However I do have a chronograph and do shoot a lot of Skeet and some Trap. I have used CCI, Winchester, and Cheddite primers and have not seen and significant change in velocity when changing between these primers. Deviations I've observed are in the range or 30 fps for a 1200 fps goal. IMO this is a strong indication that the pressure will be very similar. IMO if you are using standard primers you should be able to substitute without issues as long as you take the time to start at the minimum charge and work up until you get the velocity/lead that you normally shoot with. Note, I ALWAYS work my loads to 1200 fps and stop there, because I have mucho problems adapting to new Lead requirements.

^^^^NOT THIS!!!

_________________
Ceteris paribus, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:22 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Posts: 324
Location: Near, but not in, Portland, OR
Me, Myself and I would do it no worries. But you do you.

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 Post subject: Re: remington 209 vs winchester 209 primers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:02 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 26, 2020 10:12 am
Posts: 128
Location: Iowa
Thanks for all of the great responses. I think I will give it a try. No response to my email yet and just haven't made the effort to call. That's on me.




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