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 Post subject: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Denver, CO
My wife (5ft8in) is right handed but left eye dominant (professionally verified). She had shot shotguns very infrequently, and right handed, until deciding to join me in a trap league last Spring. I had thought we had previously checked her eyes and she shot right handed with my 12GA Citori (previously lengthened for me). During the league we discovered her left eye dominance so we experimented with closing one eye or putting a small patch on the left lense of her glasses. She continued to improve through the league. She is an athlete with good hand/eye coordination and the first time she ever shot a regular trap session she shot a 15.

After the Spring league she took a trap lesson from the club's instructor. Since she had just started shooting he recommended that she accommodate her dominant eye and switch over to lefty. She then shot the summer league lefty with the same gun and with very little setback, continued to improve. We just started a new Spring league and on the first night she shot 19 (16y) and 19 (21y).

We had a session with a local gunsmith/gunfitter/instructor recently. He installed a temporary Citori stock (shorter LOP) that he had modified to simulate a left handed stock and temporary butt pad slightly rotated. She is going to shoot this awhile to see how it works.

The plan is to buy "her own gun" and get it fitted to her as I want to keep the Citori as fitted to me-I use it sometimes as my back-up gun to a Citori Gran Prix Sporter. She will never hunt but may dabble in sporting clays or skeet so I'm thinking more of a sporting or field model rather than a dedicated trap model. She wants to stick with an over/under so she can rest it on her gun pad or foot on the ground while shooting trap. I would appreciate any advice from your experiences on our options.

Buy a used or new left hand model-CZ Southpaw Sterling (about $1000 new), SKB 90TSS Sporting with adj. comb and butt pad ($1800 new), Beretta 686SP1 Sporting ($2000 new special), Syren Elos Ladies Sporting ($2600 new)

Buy a used or new neutral cast O/U like Citori or Cynergy or Win 101. Perhaps get aftermarket adj. comb or butt pad, or get stock bent. For a lefty, is it better to have cast on, or adj. comb, or both?

How long will she want to be a shooter? Good question. I've been doing a lot of net research and you lefties don't get much respect from the gun manufacturers. And FYI I shoot in the trap league and registered SC. Thanks for any advice and for bearing with this long post.




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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:49 am
Posts: 445
Location: St. Louis, MO
As a lifelong lefty, I agree that we are ignored by most manufacturers. We only comprise about 10% of the population, and many lefties won't buy a dedicated left-hand gun because it is tough to sell. Browning's idea of a left hand gun is the standard gun with a left hand palm swell. Beretta at least offers some left hand stocks, even if they need to be custom ordered. If she is willing to try a semi-auto. Beretta makes the A400 in a true left hand version(I really like mine). Any semi-auto should come with stock shims that will adjust the stock for drop and cast.

An over/under will require a stock with cast-on. Most Browning stocks are mostly neutral, but some come with noticeable cast off( for right hand shooters) while a few have cast on(for left hand shooters). It may be better in the long run to have a custom stock made that will fit her. I think you could find a new SKB for around $1500. With the adjustable comb, it should easily be adjusted to fit. I don't have any experience with the CZ, but the Beretta is a fine gun, just more expensive than the SKB. Won't try to start an argument over which is better, SKB or Beretta.

If not for the requirement of an O/U, I would definitely recommend the left-hand Beretta A400, with kick-off. The stock can easily be adjusted to fit, and the kick-off will easily reduce recoil, making it easier to shoot.

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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:53 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Denver, CO
Thanks A71. We've ruled out the CZ for now. The factory LOP adjustment on the SKB 90TSS can only shorten up to 14". It looks like me wife will need to be in the 13.5" to 14" area. We're heading over to a Gander shortly that has both a Browning Citori and Beretta 686 in RH field models. I want to see her mount those righty to see how the rib plane lines up. The Beretta supposedly has a 1.5" drop at comb and the Browning has a 1.63 drop.

We also plan to look at a new Syren Elos in RH to get a feel for the gun dimensions and possibly order a LH model. A LH shooting instructor has offered to let Karen try our her Syren Tiempo which has similar dimensions to the Elos.

Like you mentioned about Browning, although the O/U s are supposed to be neutral, I checked out my Citory GrandPrix Sporting and it has a small cast out. If the comb drop dimension of the Beretta 686 works, we could order one of those LH and just hope we don't ever need to sell it. We could also look at a neutral Citori sporting, old or new, and get an aftermarket adjustable comb cut in to allow adjustment for cast on, and maybe an adjustable butt pad with LOP adjustment in addition to canting.

It's sure complicated.


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:59 am 
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Beretta has LH sets. Look at Cole's for selection. I would think they would work on a stock swap from the get go for you. The CG Syren line should also have LH women's stocks. ANY stock can be tweaked as necessary for her, so she needs to go by "feel", "balance", etc - all those personal intangibles that make her say "this is the one"

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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:17 pm 
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macrae3454,

I would avoid stocks with 'cast-off' for RH shooters. As mentioned, both Beretta and Syren offer LH stocks. The Syren's are specifically designed for woman and may be a great option.

You may want to check out Rollin Oswalds book 'The Stock Fitters Bible', it discusses that shotgun fit for women is more complicated that just a shorter LOP, and some cast on, hence the Syren recommendation. FYI, the book is a great book for any shotgunner to have.

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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Denver, CO
I've read portions of his book as it applies to women and it is indeed complicated and different than men. I was just reading more of the details about the Syren Elos. Unlike most "ladies" that Syrens are sized for, she has long arms and long hands. Though she probably will not be able to shoot a left hand Elos, I think she will be able to shoot the instructor's left hand Syren Tempio which has similar dimensions.
Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:12 pm
Posts: 243
You might take a look at the Instinct Catalyst or Affinity Catalyst by Franchi which are built specifically for women . Don't know if you can get your hands on one but they are available . Just something to consider .

http://www.franchiusa.com/instinct-catalyst-shotgun

http://www.franchiusa.com/affinity-catalyst-shotgun


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:01 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Denver, CO
Thanks for the feedback. I had previously read about the Instinct Catalyst. That would probably make a fine lady's hunting shotgun but at 6.9 lbs, probably too light for a lot of clay targets. The specs do not list "cast" and I could not find anything about left hand models. For about the same price we could get a Browning Crossover with 30" barrels, supposedly neutral cast, then get an aftermarket adjustable comb added.


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:12 pm
Posts: 243
macrae3454 wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I had previously read about the Instinct Catalyst. That would probably make a fine lady's hunting shotgun but at 6.9 lbs, probably too light for a lot of clay targets. The specs do not list "cast" and I could not find anything about left hand models. For about the same price we could get a Browning Crossover with 30" barrels, supposedly neutral cast, then get an aftermarket adjustable comb added.



Contact Franchi and ask about the cast and left hand models . With O/U they probably have shims for that adjustments . Never hurts to ask .

http://www.franchiusa.com/contact-us


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Denver, CO
Thanks all and for an update, we decided to order a Browning Citori CX 12GA 30" barrels. After she shoots it a little we'll get the fit checked again and probably have to send it out for an aftermarket comb cut and maybe adjustable butt pad with adj. LOP and maybe a recoil reducer.

I've been reading through archives about stock-smiths and recoil devices but most of the threads are pretty old. Good reviews for Ken Rucker and his BumpBuster products as well as R.A.D. systems and the work of TronSpace Gunworks.

Any recent advice regarding stock-smiths and recoil systems?

Thanks,
Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:18 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Denver, CO
macrae3454 wrote:
Thanks all and for an update, we decided to order a Browning Citori CX 12GA 30" barrels. After she shoots it a little we'll get the fit checked again and probably have to send it out for an aftermarket comb cut and maybe adjustable butt pad with adj. LOP and maybe a recoil reducer.

I've been reading through archives about stock-smiths and recoil devices but most of the threads are pretty old. Good reviews for Ken Rucker and his BumpBuster products as well as R.A.D. systems and the work of TronSpace Gunworks.

Any recent advice regarding stock-smiths and recoil systems?

Thanks,
Tom


Shotgun update-We decided to go with Ken Rucker and his Speedbump Stockworks company. He was very generous with his time on the phone ahead of time, answering my questions. We had him cut in an adjustable comb and install his BumpBuster Gold recoil reduction system with adjustable length of pull and adjustable butt pad. We shipped the stock w/ receiver to him on June 9 and it arrived back in Denver on June 30. We had him make some preliminary settings for the LOP, comb, and adj. butt-plate.

We picked it up after getting back from a July 4 camping trip and took it to our local shooting facility on July 9 to have her shoot at the pattern board. After multiple iterations we ended up adjusting the comb down a couple of spacers and kicked out the tow of the butt pad a little more. We left the L/R adjustment on the comb as Ken had set it (for her shooting lefty) and left the LOP at 13.75 as we asked Ken to set it.

As a benchmark, her 16yd trap average through 5 weeks of Summer league is 18.75. Her first three practice rounds yesterday were 11, 18, 20. It looks like she can just pick right up where she left off and continue her improvement progress with a gun that now fits her. She really likes the Bumpbuster Gold recoil device.

I highly recommend Ken Rucker's service.


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:13 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:43 pm
Posts: 139
Wish I had seen this a few months back, while not a lefty my wife shoots a Syren Elos Sporting. from the sounds of it the stock would have fit her well they are 13 7/8 LOP and have the higher monte carlo stock, so it might have saved you some money in stock work. my wife is a little shorter but the fit is good, and she shoots mostly 7/8oz 12 ga target loads but doesn't notice an difference with 1oz.

I know the browning citori cx has a pretty pronounced right hand palm swell, any issues there?


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:26 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:10 am
Posts: 799
My wife shoots Beretta A-400 Excel, Ken also did her stock. She is very pleased and continues to improve each time she shoots. Keep us posted on her progress.
Thanks for the post.


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 Post subject: Re: Lefty lady advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:43 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:32 am
Posts: 229
You made a very wise decesion. She should do very well with this gun.

Buster




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