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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:25 pm 
Clays Expert
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Posts: 1539
Good to hear and thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:50 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 12:26 pm
Posts: 97
What a great thread!

Going to take the day off tomorrow, relax and try different methods. First, going to try with left hand shooting, UGH ! I am too old to change but will try because I'd really like to shoot without fixes. I got the left eye dom. really bad and as much as I love to shoot, really frustrated. My first club shoot was embarrassing but I'm not going to give up.

When I miss a target, I don't know what went wrong or what to do to correct it.

Well, here goes !


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:34 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 12:26 pm
Posts: 97
"The subconscious sees two ribs and two barrels every time and handles that mutiplicity just fine."




I thought I was the only one who saw two barrels. Just didn't want to admit it to anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 5:26 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 12:26 pm
Posts: 97
Update:

Went to the club today packed with a pair of orange (one side fully blocked), magic dots on a pair of purple tinted shooting glasses, a smoke dot on my prescription glasses, a millennium dot on my millennium shooting glasses and just about everything else I could think of. Oh ya, and my fully operational dominant left eye.

After taking 4 ibuprofen due to a dislocated shoulder from trying to shoot left handed, I proceeded to experiment with all the gadgets I brought, shooting at stations 1 & 5. I confirmed that most of my problems were with clays coming in from the left to the right. No matter what the presentation. It just seemed I was just lucky when I hit one from left to right and when I missed, had no clue what I did wrong.

After going through all the items in my bag, I sat down on the bench with some cold water to review what was going on. I made the conclusion that yes, I did a bit better but wondered if it was the helper stuff or simply because I was concentrating more on being a better shooter.

Then I remembered the utube video I have watched many times by Gil Ash from OSP. "Watch the bird, not the barrel". I thought I was doing that..........but was I really ?

So packing up all the extra stuff, I put on my normal sunglasses and put a box in my holder. To be honest, I was really tired of all the tricks and gimmicks. I even went so far as putting a piece of electrical tape over my fat glow tip to prevent barrel distraction.

Then, I set out, determined on a mission to do just that, LOOK AT THE BIRD.

I first went to the station to meet my nemesis of left to right - I hit it ! Then I hit it again. And again. and again. Thinking it was just a fluke or heatstroke, I pushed the double button. BAM, CRUSH. What the hell was going on, I was actually hitting clays. Oh, this was too good to be true. Being my lucky day or dreaming, I went to the rabbit station. Crush.

I still had difficulty with the long shots but today, I hit more than missed. A good day for me. And my confidence level rose just a bit from an all time low. I finally have a base in which to start. I thought it was hopeless.

Thanks Mr. Ash for sharing your expertise tips.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:25 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:20 pm
Posts: 2166
Location: Australia
I think a lot more is attributed to eye dominance issues than is the case.
When I started shooting skeet many yrs ago, I had no problems with the bbl image from my left eye. After about 10 yrs, I began to see the image from my left eye more acutely, to the point where it was confusing.
I've tried all the different dominance tests & I'm still right eye dominant but, I now notice more of the left eye input while shooting.
The problem that I have is typical of many long time shooters I have spoken to.
My problem manifests strictly with right to left crossing targets, never left to right.
I'm a righted handed shooter so, this makes perfect sense if I am focusing on the target, the bbl is dead in between my left eye & the target. This is most acute shooting low house station #4.
When other shooters have mentioned this same phenomenon to me, I have tested this with them using right to left & left to right crossers. In all cases so far, they say the problem exists only in one direction, depending on if they are right or left handed shooters.
My solution for the last 3 or 4 yrs has been very effective.
I have a black cable tie around the top bbl under the rib with, the lock tab block on the left side of the bbl & the tail of the tie up through the block. I then twist the tail of the tie 45 deg. Leave the tie a little loose until the correct position up or down the bbl is found which blocks the left eye from seeing the bbl bead when mounted normally.
Snip the tail of the tie off at the lowest effective height, about 3/16" &, you're good to go.
This is simple & effective & certainly worth a try.

Regards....................SoT

_________________
When I hear somebody sigh, "Life is hard," I am always tempted to ask, "compared to what?"

Sydney J. Harris


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:28 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:40 am
Posts: 193
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Son of thurlo,

You might want to check out Gil Ashe's 3 bullet video drill, I think it address your problem, which is common one for right handed shooter's on right to left crossers.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:48 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:21 am
Posts: 3447
Location: South Texas
This is one of those threads I revisit every time it pops back up!

I have an update to my first post a few years ago. I have always wanted to get back to two eyed shooting and would give it try every year after the World Skeet Shoot, in the off season. Never could make it work and I know part of the problem was between my ears! I knew what scores I could shoot with a dot, two eyed scores were always a disappointment.

Fast forward, about a year ago, I just got bored shooting skeet. I also opened up some more free time for my shooting and started shooting sporting clays. From day one in sporting, I took the patch off. I also completely changed my stance to a more upright position and shot some form of low gun on almost every target except very quick trap type birds. Churchill style.

Looking back on this journey, I think my results were similar to what I have experienced in skeet. However, I did not have any score history in sporting and the targets are much more varied. I just kept shooting and learning. I focused on the learning part (sustained lead does not work for all targets!), the mount, and the plan. Slowly, it started to come together.

in short, my my eyes do not seem to bother me.....IF I use them right. I know this is due to two things...1. low gun 2. looking at the target. Low gun, the gun does not block any vision until the last moment of the shot...it's like target focus, cheek, bang.

Yesterday, I was shot about 50 birds and missed 4...all 4 times I was trying to make the shot Look the same instead of looking at the target the same way. There is a difference! When I try to make the shot look the same way, that simply means I became aware of the barrel and most of the time I rode that target a little bit....whatever, it dilutes my target focus. If I look at the target the same way, it breaks.

I think my eye dominance problems are caused by 1. the gun in the way and 2. not looking at the target correctly...at least that is my experience. I am I cured of cross firing? I doubt it. Pretty sure it still happens, but in sporting it is just harder to tell AND I don't think about it when I do miss....I just go back to using my eyes.

Shot some skeet a few weeks ago. First round 14/25. Bad enough for me to dig around in my pouch and find an old dot! Put it on and shot 23/25, during that round I noticed my comb was dead flat. So I jacked it back up to my old skeet position and ran the next two boxes. I think the games we play and the shooting styles we use also have an impact on how our eyes work...or maybe it's how we work with our eyes!

All the above leads me right back to where I was several years ago....everybody is different, you have to find what works for you and then do that.

_________________
Grand Dad called me Mismost because I did. I don't anymore.
Good Shooting!


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:38 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:59 am
Posts: 33
Anthony,
I know this post is old but I have a question if you will.
I'm a average master class shooter that at times has the ability shoot pretty well and can run the wheels of the track at other times. I was recently shooting in a make or break comp and as normal shot my way into the the top 8 for the shoot offs. I tend to shoot the big targets extremely well. This was at a large shoot with some big names. I ended up in the finals with a big name shooter. Not to nervous as I had been here before, I set out to put the work in. I shot well and won.
It happens that my friend was capturing me on video through the match. After reviewing the video I noticed that on the close fast targets 1 thru 3, I was never really in the gun. At times my face never touched the gun. I was crushing these targets. On the longer targets that you needed time and precision I was in the gun correctly and move was fluid and looked mechanically correct.
This caused me to think about my train wrecks and make note at the end of a match. In summary when I'm focused and shooting and seeing targets well it doesn't seem to matter if I'm in the gun at all. When I'm in the opposite mode nothing is really clear and can't seem to sync my hands with the gun. I can get out of the gun and nearly shoot with a soft mount and work my way to a better score.
I have very good vision and when things are right I can slow the target down and see in definition. Rings, edges, even the rotation of the target. When it is wrong I just see a target in totality.
Is this a concentration issue or could I be fighting a dominance problems at times?


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:40 am 
Clays Expert
Clays Expert

Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Posts: 1539
It can be hard to determine. When you have a "train wreck" generally what type of target is this? Keeping your head off of the gun could be a sign of your brain creating a "fix" to an eye dominance.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:45 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:59 am
Posts: 33
Can't narrow it down to a target type generally speaking. More of a over all decline. I really took notice at local registered event a few months back. I was 5 or 6 stations in and straight. At the next station there was a straight forward flat trap target, trap was really close. Trap was sitting slightly to the right and in front of the box. The second target was long looping right to left at 45-50 yards. Second target showed plenty of belly in the transition. Missed the first target 3 times. Second target was not a problem. Broke target number one the last pair by picking a hold point slightly below the line and not really going to the gun. Struggled a little the rest of the round, but adjusted and got back in the groove.
I went back to this target the next day for practice. Didn't do well the first few pairs shooting slightly high and in front. This target left to right slightly mostly quartering. I found that if I shot this target with a soft mount and little to no cheek pressure I could break it easily. I broke this target 50 times in a row. Went on and practiced a few other stations. I then come back to this target for another box of shells. First few were breaks but felt a little rushed and out of control. I worked out away away from the trap and then back to the trap. I found that I needed to have the gun well right of the target line to have a good visual lock and a smooth move to the target. Broke the target 20 times in a row using this method.
What I notice at times is that everything feels right but I shoot in space completely off the line of target. When I notice this happening I make a slight adjustment in style more of a come to the gun and can straighten things up. (I prefer the connection and go with the target method that you teach.) I need very short move and visual lock out of the gun and I can make it work. The problem with this is if I miss there is no visual reference and I have no clue. I always just work back to the target and hope it works.
I understand this is likely a very unfair question and not looking for a definitive answer. Just interested in your general input. Likely time to see you for a session. I'm in the Midwest so it is a long trip for me.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:19 am 
Clays Expert
Clays Expert

Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Posts: 1539
Work on a soft focus until you connect with the bird so you can practice understanding where the gun is. Everything that you describe sounds like a lack of muzzle awareness. Think of working on "knowing where you are" then really looking hard at the bird. The bird should not be 100% clear as you are trying to connect as you must know where the gun is. Some slight eye dominace issues can be solved by working to know where you are then really seeing the bird clearly. In other words soft focus first. On quartering don't really look back for the targets only use your peripheral vision. Let me know if this makes sense??


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