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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Posts: 18
thank Doverham

I am currently going with the dot which I will continue, it seems to be a bit of compromise between both eyes and squinting

my scores have really dropped and still no consistency but i dont beleive that to be just an eye issue

more of a technique issue i.e gunmount hold point etc. I seem to miss a lot due to misreading the speed of the clay i am often too slow and cant match the tempo


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:56 pm 
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Location: South-Central Pennsylvania
Anthony... In the case of a one-eyed shooters, do you definitely recommend the "dots" over closing one eye...??? Thx...


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:15 pm 
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If you wear contacts, a third option might be to remove the contact from the eye that is causing the dominance problems. I have been experimenting with this to manage shifting eye dominance and so far it seems to work pretty well. I am right-handed and have 1.5 correction in my right eye and 2.75 in my left. I remove my left contact when I shoot and the lack of long-distance focus in my left eye as a result seems to keep it from "taking over". I see the bird much better than when I use a dot or tape and also I find it helps keep my eye off the barrel which tends to be a problem for me when I use a dot or tape.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:16 pm 
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In general use dot over closing the eye.... Closing the eye causes one to see the barrel even more so than using a dot...


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:33 am
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Location: Sparks, MD
I have the some time left eye dominance issue. Anthony put the dot on me and my scores jumped up 10 pts. I shot over 2000 rounds with it and was able to learn where to shoot, could actually tell where I was missing and correct the next shot. Then I felt the dot was in the way too much....couldn't really see left to right targets and connect with them as the target would go behind the dot on it's approach. We removed the dot and that seems better. On left to right targets I turn my head so that my right eye sees the target first and that helps a lot. Most misses, I know where/why I missed now as opposed to before the dot, I had no idea where I was missing... I have figured out that on close, incoming and eye level targets I need to nearly cover the target to hit it. If I look at the rings and see the target clearly, I shoot under it every time. On left to right crossers, I have to be above the line to hit targets. I still have trouble with overhead targets, haven't yet figured out where I am on those..

I'm wondering if I should adjust my gun (391) so that it shoots higher? (0n pattern board @30 yds it is about 55/45) Or just continue with the adjustments mentioned above?


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:58 pm 
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55/45 should work fine......


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:20 pm 
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I have been shooting left handed since I was 5 yrs old. When I was in my mid to late 30's I bought a 391 and started shooting sporting clays. My scores steadily climbed peaking in the low 80's and then I took a lesson and all that changed....I learned I was right I dominant! I was told I could improve my scores slightly by using a dot or start shooting right handed and see a big improvement shooting both eyes open.

I made the switch to the right side and I am glad that I did. My periphial vision is better as well as my depth perception while in the gun. Many that read this will say I could never do that. Well you are wrong....through repitition and vigilance you can make the switch.

Hardmix


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:56 pm 
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great accomplishment, its not easy!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:29 am 
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Thanks Anthony, now if I can get the gun to quit biting my lower jaw all will be well but that is another issue for another thread.

Hardmix


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:42 pm 
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might be a cast issue from what it sounds like


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
I have more experience dealing with this dominance
issue than anyone I know, and this is my experience
with eye dominance.

First, my conclusion. If you have no vision problem
with either eye, I believe you can develop the ability
to shoot with either eye behind the barrel and leave
both eyes open. I do this all the time and have no
problem. In fact I always alternate between sides while
shooting, doing half with one side and half my targets
with the other side. If you have a vision problem in one
eye then you may not be able to do this.

I find that it is very hard to convince most anyone
of my conclusion, and the reason is that most people
cannot do this right away. It is my experience that
this is a learned skill that takes some time, but
once you have it, it seems to stay with you. At least
it has with me, then I practice it. If I did not practice
maybe the skill would leave.

I started off cross dominant. At that point I could
not hit anything shooting right handed both eyes
open. I tried left handed and could shoot both eyes
open, so I shot left handed exclusively with the
shotgun for years.

At some point I decided to shoot right handed because
I had trouble with speed, left handed, and I thought
that right handed I might speed up. I was shooting
international skeet and was losing targets on doubles,
second shot for being out of bounds. So I shot right
handed for years again, but with the tape on the
left lens to block out the master eye as I leaned
my head forward in shooting position. This worked
pretty well and my speed was better, but I was
not satisfied with the arrangement, as I sometimes
had trouble finding the 2nd target, because I was
looking for it with one eye possibly.

I then invented a number of sights that let me leave
both eyes open and eliminate seeing the sight with
the wrong eye. This was fun but I stopped shooting
for a number of years due to a move in my employment
and when I went back to shooting, I tried more
techniques for shooting cross dominant with both
eyes open.

At a certain point my dominance switched. I did not
even notice it at first, because I was shooting from
both sides with both eyes open, one day I noticed that
the dominance had switched. This was a surprise because
the experts say, you can't switch dominance, but I
believe they are wrong, they just don't know how to
switch it.

To shorten the story a bit, a few years ago I took
a look at Leon Measures video "shoot where you look"
and started playing with the BB gun and using his
techniques. This is where the vision got really
developed for using either eye. Shooting about
a thousand times with the BB gun from both sides,
my brain made the adjustment. It now knew where
the gun was pointed no matter which eye was behind
the barrel, and it knew instantly. My dominance
became very weak, my vision was more central, and
it is all in how your brain processes the images
that the eyes give it. Once your brain makes this
adjustment it does not matter which side you use.
Your brain is looking for the sight picture that
has the top of your barrel in it. It also disregards
the eye that sees the side of your barrel. It
does it instantly. It is just a learning process.

Your eyes are different than your hands or legs.
The optic nerves measures 35 to 55 mm back from
eye to brain chiasm. At the chiasm the nerves
split apart like this: The nerve fibers from
the nasal half of each retina cross to the other
side of the brain, while the nerve fibers from
the ear-side of each retina travel straight back
to the same hemisphere. So each brain gets a direct
connect of half its field of view to each brain.
This means that nerve impulses from the right
side of the entire field of view, from both eyes,
go to the left hemisphere, while nerve impulses
from the left side of the entire field of view,
from both eyes, go to the right hemisphere.
So each brain gets a direct connection to the
eyes from each eye with half the field of view
either left or right, depending on the eye it
comes from. There is also another section
of each brain in section 18 where each brain
get vision information from the other side
of the field of view. This is accomplished
by the corpus callosum, which is between
the brains, and it sends vision information
from the right brain to the left and visa
versa. So a certain section (18) of each brain
has an indirect connection to vision from
the other brain which is the other half of
the field of vision which is not fed directly
from the eyes through the chiasm.


Your left hand is controlled by your right brain,
but I will call it your left control brain when
talking about hands, since it controls the left
hand but is on the right side. Left hand vice
versa. Same with your legs.

So your brain has vision information from
both eyes, and dominance seems to be nothing
more than your brain disregarding info from one
of your eyes.

If you focus your vision out away from you, say
looking out the window at something and then
hold your right thumb up in front of your right
eye, your brain will see two thumbs. One image
comes from your left eye and one from your right.
One thumb though will be a stronger image than
the other. The strong image will be the one
from the eye that your brain is using, while
the weak image is from the eye your brain is
disregarding. If you are right eyed, then
the left thumb will be a strong image and the
right thumb will be weaker. If you are left
eyed then the right thumb will be stronger and
the left thumb will be weaker. I call the
weak image the "ghost image", because it
is weaker.

When I do this exercise, my images are very
close to the same strength. not having a
really distinct strong and weak image as
I once did. My brain can use the image from the
eye that is lined up with the correct hand.
It does this without thinking, but it did
not always do it. The skill came after
doing about a 1000 rounds with the BB gun
using the wrong hand.

What all this translates to, is that my brain
uses the barrel/sight picture that is lined
up with eye that is right behind the barrel/sight.
It is a completely learned skill, not a natural
one that you can do instantly, unless you just
happen to be one of those lucky people who has
developed central vision naturally with no
exercises.

Several years ago, I started making a point to
do half my shooting from either side. I usually
switch with every shot, just to keep things
even. At first there was a tendency to want
to use a certain side, if I thought the shot
was easier on that side, but I went ahead and
switched regardless of what I thought. Now
I have hardly any preference for which side
I use. There are some shots easier for me
left handed and some easier right handed, but
I am not sure why. For the most part, I can
do anything with either hand.

In shooting, that fact of which hand is controlled
by which brain may be a bigger factor than which
eye you are using. When shooting right handed,
I believe the hand connected to your right brain
is more important than the eyes, because your
right control brain has to pull the trigger. Likewise
when you shoot left handed your left control brain
has to pull the trigger. This really clouds up the
issue for me. Which brain is really solving
the problem of sighting? If your left brain
is solving it, and you are shooting left handed
then that brain is connected directly to the
trigger, but if you are shooting right handed,
then the left control brain has to coordinate with the
right hand to pull the trigger. This can get
really murky for figuring out what is happening.

Maybe both brains are working on the problem
no matter which hand is used, because the eyes
have input to both brains and therefore both
brains could work on the problem. Maybe
flinches are nothing more than your two brains
fighting over control on how when to pull the
trigger, that is quite a thought, isn't it?

My opinion is that if you are having dominance
problems, if your vision is good on both sides,
then you can develop the skill to use either
hand. All you really have to do is use that
hand with the BB gun about a 1000 times, while
focusing on the target. After this is done
for quite a while your brain becomes completely
proficient at making its sightings from the
correct eye and with no conscious effort on
your part to accomplish this. Also a side
benefit of this is that you become totally aware
of where the gun is pointed without ever making
an effort to know. Making that effort to know
is probably what causes looking back at the
barrel instead of keeping focus on the target.
This practice though of a 1000 times with
the BB gun completely trains the brain's
use of vision to "know" where the gun is
pointed. This may be a more important fact
than which eye you actually use, because
most shooters don't know where the barrel is
pointed. You hear this in their conversation,
when they say, "I never see the sight".
What this means to me is that they don't really
know where the barrel is pointed. I always
know now, but years back I did not know.
I always now know where my barrel is pointed
when the shot goes off. I have a good idea
where I missed because of this, yet my focus
is on the Target. What is more, I know with
either hand doing the shooting.

_________________
To cut down on gun violence, make stabbing, beating, and choking legal.
That should cut it WAY down.


Last edited by DevilsAdvocate on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:50 am 
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interesting......


I think it is possible to do what you describe it you don't have a truly dominate eye....


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 3130
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Quote:
I think it is possible to do what you describe if
you don't have a truly dominate eye.


I think the point goes beyond this, that learning to
use either eye as I did, is all about the brain losing
or decreasing it's dominance. You don't have to
remain "truly" dominant just because you are right
now. This is something that is completely within a
shooter's reach providing his vision is equally
good in both eyes. However this is something most
people are not willing to do, because it does require
a lot of effort. In fact the effort might not be
worth it to them, which obviously it isn't, since
they refuse to do it. It is much easier to put a
dot on your glasses, which is vast improvement for
them although it falls short of being the best
solution (keeping your vision perfect in both eyes
and reprogramming your brain in how it uses its
perfect vision).

Actually your dominance probably is influenced by your
vision. I became left eye dominant naturally as
my eyes and vision developed. I might have become
left eye dominant because my left eye had better
vision than the right. My eyes checked 20/10
both sides when I entered the Air Force at about
20 years old. Years later about, 50 years old when
my eyes had become a little more difficult to focus
over the range of the young eyes, it was determined
that my eyes were slightly far sighted. The right was
just a hair more far sighted. Could it be that this
was always the case? Could it be that because of this
my brain preferred the left eye, it being slightly
better to focus. On the other hand, maybe my right
eye was not focusing good because my brain was
disregarding it, and it was not focusing well
because it was not being asked to focus it. Interesting
question isn't it.

I decided to have the CK procedure done on my right eye
to correct it. This procedure only works for correcting
far sightedness. It also over corrects. The day
after the procedure my right eye was very near sighted,
and I could read something about 6 inches from my
right eye. This changed over time. The right eye
over about 3 months gradually became more far sighted,
and at about that time it was just very slightly
near sighted. Now my right eye was very slightly
near sighted and my left was slightly far sighted.
There was about 1/2 diopter correction required on
either one to get it perfect. That is hardly any
correction, but each eye needed the correction in
the opposite direction. What this did was make
me see everything better up close with my right
eye. At distance, both eyes were just slightly off.
So, up close my vision was better with the right
eye and off at distance neither eye was in perfect
focus, each being off about a half of diopter but
in opposite directions.

At this point my dominance under went a change from
left to right. Now my brain was disregarding the
left eye. This was apparently because brain was
getting better information over its entire range
of focus from the right eye. Anything under about
6 feet was in perfect focus with the right eye, but
slightly out of focus with the left eye. Over 6
feet away neither side had an advantage. Since
everything under 6 feet was better on the right
side, like my car instrument panel, my computer
screen, reading a book etc were all better on
the right side, my brain just started preferring
the right eye, and it started disregarding the
left, and now my dominance had reversed.

The implication of this is, that you can change
your dominance. This is something all the experts
have insisted you could not do. Yet it was a false
assumption, because we have absolute proof that many
people's dominance has changed over time, just as
mine did. It is a very good bet, that it changes
from the fact of one eye having better vision than
the other over time like as you age, and the eyes
ability to focus actually changes the brains
preference for which eye to use.

Although my dominance changed without this being
a conscious goal, it would have changed if I had
set out to do exactly this and just given the
same conditions to my eyes/brain. If I had
made my right vision better with intent to change
dominance it would still have happened but I
did without planning it that way. What this
all means is probably that most anyone can
change their dominance by doing the same thing,
providing that they are willing to wear lenses
that intentionally degrade the master eye and give
better vision to the non master eye.

A few years after the first CK procedure on the
right eye, I also had it done to the left eye.
This got both of them together again. My dominance
though stayed with the right eye, because that is
the way it just happened to be working at the time
and now my left eye had just as good vision.

If you wear prescription lenses that give one
eye perfect vision while at the same time give
the other eye a slightly out of focus prescription,
then your brain will quite likely switch its
dominance. So a person could change their
dominance with this procedure, doing it on purpose,
just as it did with me even though this was not
intended.

On the other hand if you have perfect vision with
both eyes, you can develop the brains ability to
use either eye by going through the BB gun training
that I described. Also you can actually learn to
use either eye, even if one is not as good as
the other, as long as it is not a really large
difference in each eyes vision. Actually Leon
Measure did this. His worst eye is the one he
shoots with. He has to, because one of his arms
won't allow him hold the gun to the shoulder
that favors his best eye and he shoots cross
dominant with no problem, both eyes open. He
has just trained his brain as described. Actually
this is what I do now when I shoot left handed.
My master is still the right, but my brain "knows"
to use the picture from the eye that is directly
behind the gun, not the one off to the side.

_________________
To cut down on gun violence, make stabbing, beating, and choking legal.
That should cut it WAY down.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:22 am 
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Many good points you make.. However, I think your case is not applicable to all people as it depends of the degree of dominance as well as various other factors. If you go back to the top of the thread and read through my responses address some of the issues than can arise.


great topic here.....thanks for sharing your experiences


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:21 am
Posts: 3460
Location: South Texas
I have similar experience like DevilsAdvocate....laser eye surgery corrected my right dominate eye for near vision use and the left eye for distance....something they call Monovision...it was also something I did NOT know they were going to do, or I would not have allowed. So now as I type, it is my right eye doing all the work. When I drive or shoot, I am looking off in the distance and it is the left eye that wants to see the target.

Went from a happy two eyed shooter to a basket case. It caused very bad stress problems! I would be sweaty, shaking, sick to my stomach every time I got behind a shotgun or stepped on the pad/station....it only bothered me when I shot....and I almost quit shooting because of it. My scores dropped like a rock. I could not even hit a simple Low 7 skeet target! In fact it was missing Low 7 that caused me to try to rifle shoot it with one eye closed...smoked it. Shot the next round with one eye closed and shot fine AND had no sweating, shaking, or puking!

I have long since moved on to using a dot and keeping both eyes open. It is a good, cheap, and fast fix. I also tried (and highly recommend) the Leon Measures, Shoot Where You Look BB Gun training system....but, it did not work for me as far as "fixing" my eyes...still a fun way to train out the back yard!

I said all the above to say this....deadbird995 is right, one size does not fit all. Each shooter will have to find what works for them....and they may need good help from someone who knows what they are doing to find out what works.

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Grand Dad called me Mismost because I did. I don't anymore.
Good Shooting!


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:50 pm 
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Location: New England
Mismost,
You are absolutely correct about the complexiity of the subject. Even in Neuro text books they talk of the "mystery" of eye dominance. Anthony's response on March 13 is extremely insightful. Hard for me to believe that someone not in the profession would have such a working knowlege of the subject. But not suprising I guess when you look at his accomplishments.

I am interested in your unfortunate mishap with the refractive surgery. My concern is you didn't mention using a corrective lense or a contact lense in the dominate eye to bring you back out to infinity. Is the right eye still your dominate eye? Please let me know what you are using. Because of my schedule I may not be prompt in responding but maybe we can better figure this out.............Rich

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 Post subject: Blinders
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:29 am 
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
One of the things that you see recommended often for
the cross dominance problem is blinders. A blinder
does nothing more than just removing the ability of
the "off eye" (one not directly behind the barrel) from
seeing the barrel and sight picture. You hear people
really raving about these blinders as if they were the
greatest thing in shooting. Actually though there
are considerable problems with them. To the blinders
credit though, is the fact that it does seem to work
well when the shooter first tries it. Since it does
seem to work well compared with not using that blinder,
many shooters think they have found the holy grail
and look no further for a solution. Some even really
excel using their blinder.

For a more in depth look, here are the blinders that
have found a following:

(1) Blinking the "off eye" while shooting. This is
no doubt the original blinder. A number of good
shooters do this, but I suspect it is because they
just realized that it worked better than leaving
the master eye open if master was not behind the barrel.
So they took this solution that seemed to work and
honed it into a fine art. In fact though there are
problems with it. First problem, when both eyes are
not open you have a hole in your vision. This is
an area where you do not have vision. Anything in
that hole will not be seen. If the target is in
it you will not see the target. Fortunately, your
vision hole is different for each eye. What is in
vision hole of the left eye can still be seen by
the right eye and vice versa. So if you leave
both eyes open then you will never lose sight of
the target. Second problem with closing that eye
is the second shot when doing doubles. Looking
for that second target with only one eye, then you
have more difficulty finding it, and this usually
translates to time lost in finding it. Motion is
quicker detected with both eyes open and motion is
what is first detected in picking up that second
target. Third problem with the blink is, if
you do not have the ability to close that "off eye"
by itself, then you also partially close the
shooting eye. This is pretty common, and when
the shooting eye is partially closed it can cut
off vision further by reducing the eye hole size
that is letting in the light and this further
reduces vision. And the forth problem is for the
field shooter. In the surprise of the moment a
hunter can easily forget to blink that off eye,
and then his solution is not even attempted.
So there you have four problems with the blink.
In spite of these problems this is still a
recommended technique by a number of instructors.
It just goes to show how far you can get with
an inferior technique.

(2) The next recommended blinder is the dot on
the glasses. With this technique you put just
a small blinder on the lens of the "off eye"
glasses. You position this small dot so that
it blocks out vision of the barrel for the "off
eye". In theory this works pretty good. You
can still acquire the target with both eyes,
but as you shoulder the gun with head in the
correct position, the small dot blocks vision
of the barrel/sight and you still see the target
with both eyes, and you don't have to bother
with blinking. In theory it is pretty good.
In practice though, shooters tend to try and
position the head so that the off eye can see
the barrel/sight, after all that is the eye that
is controlling things and the brain wants to
use it, so the shooter is constantly trying to
move his head so that darn dot is not in the
way, yet it has to be in the way to work. If
shooting a with a prepositioned mounted gun,
you have plenty of time to position the head
and get the dot in just the right spot and let
your brain soak in the picture, with the master
eye not even seeing the barrel/sight, then it
works pretty decently, but if you don't shoot
prepositioned gun then you are going to run
into the before mentioned problems. This is
slightly better than blinking, especially if
you shoot a premounted gun, because it does
not have as many problems as mentioned before
in the blinking/winking technique.


(3) Next blinder is that you just make the dot
much bigger. Instead of a small dot you put
a bigger piece of tape on the glass lens. You
position this tape so that while the head is
erect in normal position, you are able to first
see and acquire the target with both eyes, but
when you position your head onto the stock
slightly rotating the head down, the tape lowers
into position with this forward tilted head,
and you now cannot see the barrel/sight with
the "off eye". This works slightly better for
many because they don't have the problems of
blinking, or remembering to blink. Still it
shares some disadvantage of blinking; hole
in vision, finding 2nd target etc.


(4) The next blinder is what I call the fence.
This was probably one of the first attempts at
blinders. I thought this up with only about 10
minutes of thought on the subject back about
50 years ago. It is probably the most obvious
blinder you can come up with. I know many more
than me were able to come up with this idea,
because I have seen a number of them for sale
commercially. Here is a picture of the fence.
Image

The theory here is that the "off eye" cannot see
the bead, and by blocking the bead from the
master eye, you can let the other eye control
the aiming. The theory is good, but in actual
practice this is a really sorry solution. The
problem with it is this. Your actual sight
picture that the brain uses is a lot more than
just the bead. Your brain knows that the bead is
just part of what you are pointing. In fact you
are pointing a receiver, barrel, and vent rib,
in addition to the bead. All of this is sight
picture. The fence only stops your "off eye" from
seeing the bead. The "off eye" can still see the
rib and barrel, which actually makes up more of
the sight picture than the bead does. This
fence does work somewhat well if you premount
the gun. Premounting gives you plenty of time
to "see the bead" and ignore all the other stuff
like barrel and rib. Now with your eyes knowing
full well where the bead is, you can call for
the target and only the eye lined up with the
barrel is seeing the bead and it works okay.
If you shoot low gun, though as many prefer,
especially in the field, then you have quite
a lag after mounting the gun before your
brain sorts all this out and just sees the
bead and perceives that as the aiming device.
The fence while sounding good, has never caught
on well, even though it has been around for at
least 50 years by various geniuses that have
invented it. If it really worked well, you would
see them all over the place, but they only work
for a small number and most of those people are
shooting the premounted gun.

(5) The next blinder is a more updated version
of the fence, and I call it the tunnel. This
is the tunnel:
Image
This is a little more sophisticated than the fence,
because the bead is replaced with a bright dot.
A bight colored piece of plastic is placed inside
a tunnel, so that only the eye that is lined up
with the tunnel sees the bright plastic, and this
tunnel keeps the "off eye" from seeing the bead,
and also the aiming eye behind it sees the bead
much better because it shows up brightly. This
makes a much more pronounced sight picture and
for this reason it lets the brain perceive it
much more easily, and this makes it quicker that
the brain recognizes the sighting device. This
works much better than the fence, for most people
because it shows the bead up much better. This
actually does away with a lot of the disadvantages
of blinking/winking. You now have binocular vision
of the target, but only the aiming eye can see
the aiming devise (bright bead). You have no
problems like holes in your vision, and you can
acquire the second target rapidly. Also you don't
have to remember to blink. There is only one
problem with the tunnel, as far as I can see. That
is the fact that you cannot see the sight until
you have the gun positioned perfectly in shooting
position. This is a problem for field shooters
and low gun target shooters. Normally when mounting
a gun, your brain is aware of the position of the
barrel/rib even as you are mounting the gun. You
can actually be doing rough aiming even while
mounting. In effect, what this means again is that
you are using more than just the bead for your
sight picture. You also use the barrel/rib as
part of the sight picture. Since you use that as
part of your sight picture, and you perceive that
even as you are mounting then your brain is aware
of sight picture even before the gun hits your
shoulder, since your brain is using that barrel/rib
as reference. Now once the gun does come into
position, your brain has to transition to another
sight picture, that being the bright plastic dot
in the tunnel. Your brain can't see that bright
dot until the gun if fully mounted. With this
tunnel, you do not have the sight picture until the
gun is fully mounted. Even after it is fully mounted,
it takes an instant for the brain to now perceive that
bright dot, and position the gun for the shot. This
means that you will have slight delay before your
brain can start finally solving the aiming problem,
because of how late in the movement the sight picture
has arrived. So this tunnel is slightly slower than
just using the exposed bead which your brain can
perceive even while mounting. If you shoot premounted
then there is no delay in perceiving the sight picture
since you can perceive it as you get the gun lined up
and ready to call for the target. If you shoot low gun,
though there will be a very slight delay as your brain
finally gets an aiming point to use at the last instant
of gun mount. This solution works pretty well for all
the premounted shooters to use, and it works pretty
good in the field where you have plenty of time after
mounting to get the brain to preceiving that sight
picture, slightly after the gun is fully mounted.

So there are all the popular blinders.

In addition to these popular blinders, there is actually
another one that works even better, and it requires
no extra equipment to use.

This blinder is your thumb. If you hold the forearm of
your gun with your thumb in this position then you
have made your own blinder. The following two pictures
show the hand and thumb as seen from both the left and
right side.
Image

Image

As you can see the hand is holding the forearm so that
the thumb is extending above the barrel and right
beside it. Seen from the rear this is what the eye
behind the barrel/rib sees as it is lined up on
a target for a right handed shooter:
Image

Next picture is what the "off eye" sees that is not lined
up on barrel. The barrel/sight is blocked from vision
on the "off eye", and yet it can still see the target.
Image

Notice you can see the target with both eyes but
you can only see the barrel/rib/bead with the eye
that is lined up with barrel. The reason that this
thumb only blocks out the barrel/rib/bead from
the off eye is because the thumb is actually between
the eyes. If you were out at the target looking
back at the shooter you would see this picture,
with the thumb between the eyes, and yet both
eyes have a clear path and vision of the target.
Image

Notice that the blinders on your glasses put the
blinder right back about a 1/4 inch from the eye,
and the fence and tunnel stick the blinder out
at the end of the barrel. With the thumb though
you are compromising between these two distances
that the blinder is away from the eye, and
there are several advantages of this blinder, just
using your thumb. Here are the advantages.
(1) You don't need to buy anything. It will work
with any gun you happen to use, and with any glasses.
(2) Gives you full binocular view of the target
and lets you find second targets using both eyes.
(3) It gives the same sight picture as you are
mounting as when gun finally gets into postion.
It uses the full sight picture, barrel/rib/bead.
All of these are visible all during the mount,
and there is no transistion to the bead after
it appears, because it is always present during
the mount.
(4) It completely eliminates view of the barrel,
rib, and bead by the "off eye", and it eliminates
this vision even during mount, making it a seamless
transition to the sight picture which is always
present during the mount. This is important because
as noted before your sight picture actually includes
more than just the bead.
(5) Lets both eyes try to acquire the second
target on doubles.
(6) Works no matter which hand you use, so you
can shoot left or right handed and have binocular
view of the target yet only the eye behind the
barrel is allowed aiming information.
(7) You don't have to wear glasses with tape.
So you can use or not use any glasses you see
fit to use, and maybe while hunting you don't
even want glasses, perhaps if snowing or raining
or whatever.

So there is the full story as I know it on blinders.
Dr Andrew Jones in recent post noted the use of the
thumb as a blinder, but a reader had trouble trying
understand what he was describing. With these pictures
you should be able to figure it out.

I used the thumb blinder for several years and
found that I could shoot as well with either hand
doing it. As time went on, I developed the ability
to use either eye without any blinder at all, and
yet with both eyes open. I suspect that just using
the thumb blinder and making my brain use either
eye was actually a training for my brain to use
either eye even when the blinder was later removed.
I covered that in the above posts about the eye use
and how you could actually use either eye with training.
While developing the use of both eyes it can be helpful
to use the thumb blinder before you really develop
equal vision whereby your brain can use either
eye as effectively as the other. After you
develop your vision properly, you can forget
the blinder, as it is no longer needed. Until
then, you might want to use the blinder, and
you will always have your thumb present if
needed.

Before I started using the thumb as a blinder I
made blinders that attached to the gun in the
receiver area. This is something you can do
if you don't want to stick your thumb up and
use it as a blinder. This also gives the advantage
of the thumb with the distance from eye to blinder
being a compromise between the taped glasses and
the tunnel way out at the end of the barrel.
Here is one of my blinders that I made by adding it
to an 870 forearm.
Image

This one is on the ride side of the gun so
it works good if your right eye is dominant
and you want to shoot left handed both eyes open.
Also one thing about the pump gun is that using
your thumb can be a problem. If the gun is
a right handed gun and you shoot it left handed,
with your right thumb as a blinder then that
thumb will get in the way of ejection of the
spent shell. With your hand/thumb there
blocking ejection, you will get a jam of the
gun on the second shot because the shell will
not eject. This blinder on the forearm solves
that by being in a position that does not
interfer with ejection. After you develop
complete use of your eyes then you no longer
have to use the thumb and you can shoot your
pump with either hand with the thumb down.

_________________
To cut down on gun violence, make stabbing, beating, and choking legal.
That should cut it WAY down.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:24 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:32 am
Posts: 1848
Devil Advocate, from the sporting clays section:

Quote:
"I am just curious what happened to the initial dominant
eye after the changing."

When I noticed my dominance had changed I could still
shoot with the non dominant eye, the left. The difference
was that sometimes I had some confusion when shooting
left handed, in so far as sight picture was concerned.
But it was an isolated thing. It might happen once in
twenty five shots while shooting left handed. Right
handed though I did not have the confusion. At that
point I could shoot with either hand both eyes open
and with no tricks, but I usually used my thumb as
a blinder when shooting left handed, once I became
right eyed. While I had been left eye dominant I had
used my thumb as a blinder when shooting right handed.
Not too long after my dominance switched I started
doing a lot of BB gun shooting two eyed, and I did
it from both sides, no blinders whatever. After doing
that many hundreds of rounds both sides I got to where
I could shoot either side both eyes, and never
needed a blinder. I could do it instantly without
a conscious thought and still can, however if I don't
"focus good" on the target I might get some confusion maybe
once in a 50 or 100 shots while shooting left handed
now. Also I was shooting trap at near dark once,
and experienced a problem when switching to the left
side. Under those low light conditions, when I mounted
the gun, left handed, no blinder, the sight picture
my brain had was of the side of the shotgun as I
focused out on the trap house. I had no picture in
my brain of the top of the barrel, the brain was
using the right eye. I put my thumb blinder up and
then the top of the barrel appeared to my brain, and
it stayed there even after I removed the thumb blinder.
After playing with this a few minutes I could use
either eye without the blinder. Apparently under these
low light conditions visual confusion was more likely,
but I could still pretty well use either eye. There is also
the factor of night vision VS day vision coming into play.
Your night vision is with the rods and your day vision is
with the cones. The center of your focus in the eye ball
is composed of cones whereas the rods (night vision) are
more away from your center of focus and this probably
has effect on master eye dominance also.
There is an area here where things get pretty
murky. Apparently people do have the ability to sort of
turn on and off the master eye but it takes some
practice. This is hinted at on the subject of stereoscopic
mandalas, where they are talking about looking at
two blocks of juxtaposed lines, one horizontal and one
vertical using stereoscopic vision; they say:
Quote:
"With a little practice you can consciously "will" the
stripes of the above image to appear either horizontal or
vertical. In effect, with your mind you can switch eye
dominance. It's an exhilarating experience to realize you
have this ability. Further, we haven't found anyone who
can verbalize just how they make the stripes switch.
Apparently it is a deeply non-conscious process."

This is a link to the site with that above description:
http://www.navaching.com/hawkeen/mandala.html

They also noted in their testing on this that some
people could not achieve this turning on and off
of the master eye:
Quote:
"For some unknown reason about four to five percent
of college students fail to experience stereoscopic
vision in classroom tests. In most cases it's
probably a matter of having a very dominant eye
and/or lack of practice."


I think the key word in the above quote could be
"practice".

I don't know what would have happened to my ability
to shoot left handed, if I did not keep it up after
the switch of my dominance. timps lost his ability to
use the non dominant eye at some point, but was able to
use either for a short time while going through the
transition, pretty much like I have done all along.
My wild guess is that he lost the ability by not
practicing with both sides, after all, he switched
because he did not want to use the left side.

My speculation is that I could maintain my ability
to use the "wrong eye" even if I did not practice
it. That is my speculation just because I can
do it with no conscious effort whatever. On the
other hand I cannot know this for sure unless I would
stop using the left side for a prolonged time
and then tried it after a long period of non
use. Since I have no incentive to stop practicing
from both sides, I suppose I will never know.

_________________
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_________________
Creator of XD Solution, Maze Clays and Qwickresponse.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:42 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:00 am
Posts: 511
Location: Southern NJ
Hi guys. Since I run in to this a lot when building stocks for customers. It's hard to fit a person when their doing different things with their eyes. Here's a few observations I hope are helpful.

1. This takes work and time. Often it can't be accomplished alone with many will need some one on one time with some one like Anthony.

2. To a certain extent eye dominance is a habit. It's not an eye condition more of a brain thing and like all habits it takes time for the brain to rewrite the program.

3. I teach Trap Shooting and I have found that for many the transition from one eye to two or the other eye can be easier when shooting a pre-mounted gun and then going back to mounting after we have become accustomed to the new habit of keeping our eyes open and fixed on the target.


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 Post subject: Re: Eye Dominance....Revisited
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:46 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:00 am
Posts: 511
Location: Southern NJ
Eye dominance and handedness are functions of the Brain.
Joe


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