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 Post subject: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:17 pm 
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Guys,

getting ready to sell a shotgun online to another state... help me out here with the process, it has been a while since I've done this.


1) I need the buyer's FFL to ship to and include a copy of that in the package

2) Shotguns can ship USPS but it is a PITA?

3) Shotguns can ship UPS but they have to pick it up personally (will they pick up at my house on request? I know Fedex has before to send guns to the factory for work)


Anything I'm missing and any recommendations on how best to ship? The gun will be shipped in a VERY sturdy Oak case so I'm not worried about damage but will put insurance on it just in case...

Thanks in advance!




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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:47 pm 
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You don't necessarily have to have a copy of the FFL in the package but it's always a safe bet.

I personally have shipped probably 2 dozen guns USPS and will not use anything else. I use Priority Mail w/ insurance and have had very good luck.

I received some guns via UPS and one was pretty well destroyed when I receive it. I will not use nor recommend them.

FedEx is decent but I think too expensive.

Also, I've never disclosed that I was shipping a gun. That may be against their policy but if they haven't asked, I won't tell them.


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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:06 pm 
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Don't be shy with the enclosed paper work-phone numbers,etc.--I also agree with the post about UPS--stayaway from them/I would also insure the box----it may seem secure but some gorilla is there just waiting to see what it will take :oops: :evil:


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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:44 am 
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Like the other poster said: Enclose paperwork with your address, his address and copies of FFL's. Don't mark the box with the contents. If you check with your local 'mart store, they often have those cheap plastic gun cases still in the original cardboard boxes. Just use a marker and scribble lines thru the writing on the box so it looks "used". That's a good way to ship long guns. Long guns can all be shipped via USPS, UPS and FedEx Ground. We use FedEx Ground for long guns and have been very satisfied with them. Usually less than $20 anywhere in the lower 48 states. Stay far away from the shipping stores. They will charge you double the price to make their profit. Take it to the shipping counter yourself. Likewise, don't use the pick-up service. It costs extra and the less time that it rides around in the truck thru the neighborhood, the better. Take a copy of the buyers FFL with you when you ship it out. They may not ask about the contents but if they do, they may want proof that it's going to a bonafide dealer. Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:29 pm 
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A gunsmith that I use a lot ships by UPS, but he ships a lot of guns, he has regular pickup every day, and the local UPS people are used to handling guns. For me, I have found it to be a lot easier to ship by USPS. They never give me any trouble. I have heard of USPS clerks giving a shipper trouble, but if it happens ask for a supervisor or just go to a different PO.

Quote:
Also, I've never disclosed that I was shipping a gun. That may be against their policy but if they haven't asked, I won't tell them.


That is not just a violation of policy, you are violating Federal law! No matter which shipper you use, you are required to tell them it is a gun, even if they don't ask. However, you should not put anything on the outside that indicates that there is a gun inside. If you are shpping to Joe's Gunshop, Inc, just address it to Joe's Inc.

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 Post subject: Re: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:31 pm 
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Seamus O'Caiside wrote:
That is not just a violation of policy, you are violating Federal law! No matter which shipper you use, you are required to tell them it is a gun, even if they don't ask. However, you should not put anything on the outside that indicates that there is a gun inside. If you are shpping to Joe's Gunshop, Inc, just address it to Joe's Inc.


I'm sorry but that is incorrect. Only if you're shipping to someone OTHER than a licensed dealer, gunsmith, manufacturer, etc. do you have to notify the carrier. When shipping to a licensed dealer, no notification is required.

If you don't believe me, contact the BATF and see what they say.


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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:26 pm 
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Just another thumbs-down for shipping by UPS...

A rifle I shipped had something dropped on it so hard that the stock was cracked. I had packed the gun to survive a drop from 4 or 5ft, but not for someone to drop an anvil on it! (about what they would've had to do)!

The claim process was a PITA, but I was tenacious about getting it resolved to the buyer's satisfaction - and finally did after about a month and a half.

One of the previous posts mentions UPS's "regulars" who receive guns - that they do a better job with handling. I'd have to agree as I bought a shotgun a while back and had it shipped to a well-known local dealer. The gun was very light packed and arrived in perfect shape.

Next time I'll use USPS, as they've always been excellent for other items. Didn't stop to think that they could ship long guns...


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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:02 am 
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SShooterZ said:
Quote:
Only if you're shipping to someone OTHER than a licensed dealer, gunsmith, manufacturer, etc. do you have to notify the carrier. When shipping to a licensed dealer, no notification is required.


That is wrong. You are always required to notify the carrier, no matter who you are shipping to.

From: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8 (emphasis added)

(B8 ) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

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 Post subject: Re: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:34 am 
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Seamus O'Caiside wrote:
SShooterZ said:
Quote:
Only if you're shipping to someone OTHER than a licensed dealer, gunsmith, manufacturer, etc. do you have to notify the carrier. When shipping to a licensed dealer, no notification is required.


That is wrong. You are always required to notify the carrier, no matter who you are shipping to.

From: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8 (emphasis added)

(B8 ) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


Thanks for the post, that is an oft misunderstood requirement. I'd like to add that if you're shipping any high dollar guns (around 3K and up) Registered USPS is the only way to go. They don't pound you on insurance and believe me when they stamp that sucker registered it's gonna get to wherer it's going. All points in transit must sign for the package. It's a little slower but no one's gonna take it, they're asking for trouble. Too many easier targets around.


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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:05 am 
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Based on your reference, you would need to look at statement prior to this quote to understand the context in which this law is applying to.

Quote:
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.


Some things to point out. A common carrier is not the USPS, UPS or FedEx. A common carrier would be an airline, railroad, bus line, cruise shipe or trucking company. THEY would need to be notified if you were using them to transport a firearm.

Please see this letter from the BATF regarding the disagreement at hand.

Image
Image

Please note, as written by the BATF:

Quote:
Based on the above provision, if a firearm or ammunition is being shipped to one of the indicated classes of licensees, it is not required that the shipper be notified of the package contents. However, an individual shipper has the ability to require such notification if they so desire before accepting a package for shipment


If you're using a common carrier such as a American Airlines, Metra, Princess Cruise Lines, than yes, you need to notify them by law that the package they are delivering contains a firearm. However, USPS, UPS and FedEX are not governed by such as common carriers but instead are considered shippers.

In fact, if you look on the UPS FAQ site regarding firearms you will notice that they specifically state that
Quote:
When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
If it was Federal Law that notification must be made when shipping any firearm to the shipper, then why would UPS state only handguns?

Again, I suggest you contact the BATF if you don't agree with what I have stated. When I have asked my FFL and a LEO who is waiting for acceptance into the BATF the same question, I was told that neither was aware of any LAW that required I notify the shipper. The shipper may require it, as I have stated in my original post, but by LAW, notification is not required.


Last edited by SShooterZ on Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: selling and shipping a shotgun online
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:34 am 
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If it is a one shot deal and a high dollar gun, get an FFL dealer to do it for you. And ship it overnight.
Be aware that some states require it to come from an FFL also.
My state does, and it is a pain.
Luckily I have found a good FFL guy.




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