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 Post subject: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:10 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:31 pm
Posts: 60
Is there a mercury recoil reducer that will fit in a little youth pump?

If not, is there a way to make one? Maybe some lead in the stock somehow to better balance the gun?




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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:23 pm
Posts: 5332
Location: Brillion, WI
Blake;

Adding weight tot he stock via enclosed shot in the stock's bolt hole will reduce the felt recoil as much as a mercury unit.

However, I am wondering if there is not another cause of the objectionable recoil, for example, how the gun fails to fit the youth.

Can you describe the uncomfortable recoil in more detail - is it to the shoulder or to the face?

Is the pain or discomfort on the shoulder near the top of the butt or recoil pad or farther down on the shoulder?

Where on the shoulder does the youth mount the gun - on or near the shoulder joint or farther in from the shoulder joint?

What model of shotgun is it?

How tall is the youth and what does he/she weigh?

What is the distance from the front of the trigger to the middle of the butt plate or recoil pad? That measurement is the stock's "length of pull."

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 17191
Also, what loads is the youth shooting now?

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:56 pm 
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OOL,

Good question - I should have included it.

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:08 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:14 pm
Posts: 4450
Location: SoCal
A friends son used a 20 gauge 870 and it was a bit too light causing heavy recoil. He told me the mercury recoil reducer wouldn't work out for him??(never stated reason?)
But he did have some luck just adding about a pound of weight to the stock and mag tube. He did it by raiding his deep sea fishing box, used what are called torpedo sinkers, available in weights any where from a couple of ounces to a few pounds. Stuck some in the stock and one to balance out the shotgun in the mag tube. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:26 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:31 pm
Posts: 60
The gun should fit him, based on lop and arm length. It's a mossy 510 mini, and he hasn't shot it yet. I just don't want him to have a bad experience out of the gate.

I've been trying to think how I can get some weight in the stock, but since it's hollow I can't figure out how to secure it. I'll google those torpedo weights.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:22 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 2642
Location: Newton Kansas
Then don't start him off with 3/4 ounce field hunting loads like I was started 35 years ago.

A recoil pad is a plus as well.

Never-to-be-sufficiently-damned H&R Topper open hammer 20-gauge with a but-plate made from mule shoes and Federal Field Loads................. @#&^&##$*^#$#@*^&%@#$@^$#&$#*@^#@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:33 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 192
BlakeJ wrote:
The gun should fit him, based on lop and arm length. It's a mossy 510 mini, and he hasn't shot it yet. I just don't want him to have a bad experience out of the gate.

I've been trying to think how I can get some weight in the stock, but since it's hollow I can't figure out how to secure it. I'll google those torpedo weights.



Put some shot in a snack or sandwich baggie place in stock and then add packing peanuts in the cavity, really pack them in there and then replace the butt plate.

My son was a small recoil sensitive kid and I started him out with an NEF Pardner in 28 ga and then went to the Beretta 390 youth 20 ga. By adding a longer barrel (went from 25" to 28") and thicker pad, it was easy to turn into an adult-sized gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:15 am 
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Location: Brillion, WI
BlakeJ wrote:
The gun should fit him, based on lop and arm length. It's a mossy 510 mini, and he hasn't shot it yet. I just don't want him to have a bad experience out of the gate.

I've been trying to think how I can get some weight in the stock, but since it's hollow I can't figure out how to secure it. I'll google those torpedo weights.


Arm length is a poor predictor of the correct stock length.

To learn what his correct length is, have him mount the gun with the recoil pad high enough on his shoulder so he doesn't need to lean his neck forward to put his cheek on the comb.

The stock is the correct length when the distance between the tip of his nose and the second knuckle on his trigger hand thumb is separated by about an inch. (For adults a 1.5" nose/thumb separation is good. For your son, it should be no more than a 1.5" separation.)

If the stock is too long, he will shoot with most of the weight on his back foot. That would invite excessive felt recoil and make the gun more difficult to swing accurately. It would also cause him to rotate his body too far (more than 45 degrees) and shoot his gun like a rifle. The in turn, would hamper swings to targets traveling to his left, assuming that he shoots right-handed.

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Rollin

Author of "Stock Fitter's Bible, Second Edition," which explains the interrelationships between shooting form, stock dimensions and a shooter's size and shape http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Fitters-Bible-Second-Edition/dp/1451570384


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:32 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 2642
Location: Newton Kansas
Packing peanuts in the cavity,,, my preference would be bubble wrap or packing foam wrapped around the bag of shot/sinkers/whatever, yes, packed in there real tight.

The only thing you get from Mercury is weight (and the future potential of it being illegal to possess, let alone sell to anyone else).

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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:14 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 6:45 am
Posts: 91
TIFWIW - If you want to assure the best experience possible for the youth... sell the pump and put the money towards a youth gas operated 20ga. There are great options that aren't too expensive. Models like the Tristar G2 youth, Weatherby SA08 compact, and the Remington 1187 compact are all fantastic youth starter guns. My medium size 10 year old is currently shooting a G2 and can shoot 200 clays a weekend with no problem. And he is able to shoot all the games with it - trap, skeet, and sporting clays.

Not managing recoil for kids is the number 1 way to turn them off. Do it right and you have a shooting buddy for life. Do it wrong and it will be a long time before they come back, if they ever do.

Pumps are too lightweight and with zero recoil management... kick like mules to a kid.

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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:25 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:31 pm
Posts: 60
How much weight should I try to add? It's a 5 pound gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:38 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:01 am
Posts: 2642
Location: Newton Kansas
How much recoil do you want to remove.........................................

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 17191
BlakeJ wrote:
How much weight should I try to add? It's a 5 pound gun.

1-2 pounds to start - evenly distributed fore and aft. Then reload 3/4oz 20 gauge target loads running about 1200 fps. This is AFTER you get the gun to fit, otherwise it will still beat him up, even with less recoil (cheek slap comes to mind)

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The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:52 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:31 pm
Posts: 60
Ok one last question...

I'm going to get my hands on some different lead weights to see what will fit in that little stock. I'll have to place it either above or below the stock nut, as there isn't enough room to get anything behind it. I might have to go both above and below, depending on what weight I can get, but if I have to chose between on top or below the stock nut, which should I chose?

I'm probably overthinking all of this...


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm
Posts: 17191
Until you get the stock to fit, you are overthinking this.

_________________
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory, Aldo Gucci

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience, George Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Stock recoil reducer for a youth pump?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:23 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 11:34 pm
Posts: 415
oneounceload wrote:
BlakeJ wrote:
How much weight should I try to add? It's a 5 pound gun.

1-2 pounds to start - evenly distributed fore and aft. Then reload 3/4oz 20 gauge target loads running about 1200 fps. This is AFTER you get the gun to fit, otherwise it will still beat him up, even with less recoil (cheek slap comes to mind)

OP might want to try Fiocchi Training Loads - 3/4 oz @ 1,075 f/s. But add weight to the shotgun, as 5lbs. is going to kick with any load. As oneounceload posted, OP may need to add weight to the front of the shotgun (one solution is a Briley barrel weight ( http://www.briley.com/c-430-all-models.aspx )) to offset the weight added to the stock to avoid whippiness if the shotgun becomes stock-heavy.



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