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 Post subject: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Last edited by Mer303 on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:28 am 
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Abraham; I am new to the forum, but have been collecting shotguns for a number of years, and have some that are well over one hundred years old. I presume the locks have been tripped untold numerous times over the years, and each of the old ones have the original firing pins still in great shape! It has been my experience there will be no damage to the pins, if the gun is disassembled in this manner.

best regards,
Jim

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:37 am 
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First disassemble the gun. (Even if it is cocked, but of course, not loaded.)

If you are trying to store it disassembled, then at that point, simply hold a snap cap, a piece of leather or rubber, (or if you are tough), your finger tip in front of the firing pin/s while pulling the trigger/s.

Put 'er away.

Just so simple it befuddles lots of folks.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:53 am 
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jugchoke wrote:
First disassemble the gun. (Even if it is cocked, but of course, not loaded.)

If you are trying to store it disassembled, then at that point, simply hold a snap cap, a piece of leather or rubber, (or if you are tough), your finger tip in front of the firing pin/s while pulling the trigger/s.

Put 'er away.

Just so simple it befuddles lots of folks.


This is correct, EXCEPT for LC Smith's. You'll have a heck of a time getting one back together if you drop the pins with the barrels off the gun.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:05 am 
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On most popular actions, ie Anson Deeley, Holland etc, i put in snap caps, fire the locks, then take off the forend and open the gun, this does not recock the locks.

But, please note that this process, and any other manner of tripping the main locks, does nothing to detense the ejectors. Ejectors usually stay cocked and the springs compressed for years and they do not seem to suffer for it.

Gough Thomas wrote about a wheel lock musket found cocked. After what probably was centuries of compression the spring worked flawlessly. Spring fatigue is most likely a myth but if it makes you feel good go ahead and detense the springs.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:43 am 
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Mer303 wrote:
First of all, we know there are two basic rules;


A) We know that the "dry firing" or "pulling the triggers without live ammunition" is not recommended without the use of "snap caps". Especially, manufacturers are underscoring this issue.

B) On the other hand, it's also harmful to keep the triggers in tension without pulling them to store the shotguns for a while as well.. Thanks in advance.



Neither is strictly true. A shotgun sees more vibration, stress, and wear when it is live-fired than dry-fired. It is not at all harmful to store shotguns cocked. Pistols are dryfired constantly by some competitors-- with no ill effects. Unless it is a rimfire, not applicable to shotguns, it is much ado about nothing.


Some manufacturers tell you specifically never to dry fire their guns-- as pulling the trigger on an "empty" chamber is a problem as the chamber may not be empty. It goes against the grain of "treat every gun as if it were loaded."

It is a waste of time unless you are trying to sell snap caps. Consider that snap caps are so "very, vitally important" that most new shotguns do not come with them.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:17 am 
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On the subject of snap caps... I have heard a lot of "reasons" why but really only one good explanation as to thier purpose. From what I was told the sole purpose of a snap cap is to limit the amount of travel of the firing pins. Great if you are checking trigger pull. Without, the firing pin overtravels and in some instances winds up peening the inside of the bolt, frame or the shoulder of the pin(s) themself.

As far as storage of tensioned springs? I'm with Randy, much ado about nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:53 am 
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Some shotguns, as has been alluded to, are the dickens to put back together if disassembled uncocked. Check this out before you take yours apart. The Beretta Silverhawk is one of these.

The reason springs work is that their compression/decompression is in the range of their modulus of elasticity. As long as the spring is in this range it matters not a jot whether or not it is compressed or relaxed.

The traditional way of decocking an opened gun is to let the pins fall on a block of horn.

Most guns have been dry-fired numerous times and still work but that doesn't mean anything. You can drop your laptop on the floor and it still will work, but do you want to keep doing it? It sort of goes against good machine practise to fire a firing pin into air.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:39 am 
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According to the experts regarding springs (of any kind...shotguns, semi auto magazines, revolvers, etc.) springs do not lose their strength from being fully compressed or fully at rest. The process of flexing the springs (compressing & decompressing) wear at the springs tensile strength. So it is not necessary to release the hammer springs.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:41 am 
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You can make snap caps quickly and very cheap at home (I have not tried to make any for a shotgun, but this works for center fire snap caps).

Remove primer from a spent hull - Clean the case and cut to desired length - Support the case, take a hard pencil eraser and position it over the primer pocket - Whack it with a hammer - Trim the excess and it's done.

As I said, it works for centerfire cartridges, should work for shotshells.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:08 pm
Posts: 32
Thank you jugchoke,

I think this is the simple and the correct way. Then, we don't need any snap caps. It's just enough to hold a little hard rubber after the disassembling.




jugchoke wrote:
First disassemble the gun. (Even if it is cocked, but of course, not loaded.)

If you are trying to store it disassembled, then at that point, simply hold a snap cap, a piece of leather or rubber, (or if you are tough), your finger tip in front of the firing pin/s while pulling the trigger/s.

Put 'er away.

Just so simple it befuddles lots of folks.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:08 pm
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Thank you for your post Randy.. But you're wrong, I'm not selling snap caps , I'm an engineer and consultant on SAP (enterprise resource planing software) and I don't think it is the waste of time to talk about an issue which is being underscored by the manufacturers.

Thanks anyway.

Abraham...



RandyWakeman wrote:
Mer303 wrote:
First of all, we know there are two basic rules;


A) We know that the "dry firing" or "pulling the triggers without live ammunition" is not recommended without the use of "snap caps". Especially, manufacturers are underscoring this issue.

B) On the other hand, it's also harmful to keep the triggers in tension without pulling them to store the shotguns for a while as well.. Thanks in advance.



Neither is strictly true. A shotgun sees more vibration, stress, and wear when it is live-fired than dry-fired. It is not at all harmful to store shotguns cocked. Pistols are dryfired constantly by some competitors-- with no ill effects. Unless it is a rimfire, not applicable to shotguns, it is much ado about nothing.


Some manufacturers tell you specifically never to dry fire their guns-- as pulling the trigger on an "empty" chamber is a problem as the chamber may not be empty. It goes against the grain of "treat every gun as if it were loaded."

It is a waste of time unless you are trying to sell snap caps. Consider that snap caps are so "very, vitally important" that most new shotguns do not come with them.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:08 pm
Posts: 32
I agree with you definitely. Nobody wants to keep dropping his/her laptop because of the result of the first time was not a broken computer.


Pumpster wrote:
Some shotguns, as has been alluded to, are the dickens to put back together if disassembled uncocked. Check this out before you take yours apart. The Beretta Silverhawk is one of these.

The reason springs work is that their compression/decompression is in the range of their modulus of elasticity. As long as the spring is in this range it matters not a jot whether or not it is compressed or relaxed.

The traditional way of decocking an opened gun is to let the pins fall on a block of horn.

Most guns have been dry-fired numerous times and still work but that doesn't mean anything. You can drop your laptop on the floor and it still will work, but do you want to keep doing it? It sort of goes against good machine practise to fire a firing pin into air.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:09 am 
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Thanks TTE, your solution is little bit similar with jogchoke's one.
I think, it's not necessary to produce a snap caps, after the disassembling the shotgun, any piece of a hard rubber can be simply hold against to the pins respectively.

So, the correct steps can be like the following;

1) Unload the shotgun
2) Close the action without pulling the triggers
3) Disassemble the fore end.
4) Disassemble the barrel
5) Hold the piece of a hard rubber against first pin, pull the trigger, and then repeat this for other pin.

That's it I think.

Thanks to everybody.

Abraham...


TTE wrote:
You can make snap caps quickly and very cheap at home (I have not tried to make any for a shotgun, but this works for center fire snap caps).

Remove primer from a spent hull - Clean the case and cut to desired length - Support the case, take a hard pencil eraser and position it over the primer pocket - Whack it with a hammer - Trim the excess and it's done.

As I said, it works for centerfire cartridges, should work for shotshells.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:27 am 
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abraham: I would not spend any time worried about the "springs" in tmy O/U , unless it is a very old one w/ old springs. I shoot a lot of targets , and have never worried about snap caps and have never had a spring break.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:09 am 
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Did I miss it? I'm suprised no one has mentioned the differance between modern coiled springs and coil springs in wells. As opposed to flat springs in side locks and such. If we take a previous posters very accurate argument "If snap caps were really important, new guns would come so equipped (para)" Well, my AYA #2 came with a full set of fitted springs and pins. I have had one break.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:52 am 
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No Heelerman, you didn't miss it...

No one compared the flat springs with modern coiled springs... I think you mean V-Springs as you say flat springs, right?

What could be the difference of the impacts of the V-Springs and Coiled Springs in your opinions?

Thanks for your post..

Abraham...


heelerman wrote:
Did I miss it? I'm suprised no one has mentioned the differance between modern coiled springs and coil springs in wells. As opposed to flat springs in side locks and such. If we take a previous posters very accurate argument "If snap caps were really important, new guns would come so equipped (para)" Well, my AYA #2 came with a full set of fitted springs and pins. I have had one break.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:24 pm 
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Mer,
Yes, those ones. I don't know if the forces are any greater of lesser on either. In V springs the stresses are across one long axis, The one that has broken in the last twenty seven years broke about dead center. It should also mentioned that small issues sometime take place in Spanish metalurgy.


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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Mer303 wrote:
Thank you for your post Randy.. But you're wrong, I'm not selling snap caps
Mer303 wrote:


I didn't say that "you" were.

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 Post subject: Re: How to disassembly a double barrel shotgun??? Important!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:30 pm 
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First let me say that I always use snap caps on all my guns and store them with the hammers down. None of mine have ever presented a problem with reassembly with the hammers down, but that is probably just the luck of the draw.

That said, I'm not really sure that relieving the stress on the hammer springs is all that important. Consider this: When you dry fire the gun, the hammer springs are relieved of their tension. But, what of the ejector springs? They are always cocked.

As I said, I always use snap caps to relieve the stress when storing my guns, but there is pretty good evidance that its necessity is pretty much an old wives' tail.

Frank



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