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 Post subject: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Somewhere I recall you posting a link about Quiet Eye and was hoping you could do that again.

Thanks {hs#



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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:04 am 
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FWIW, I found this article about VIckers' studies the most informative -- YMMV: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... lf_Putting

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:37 pm 
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search Joan Vickiers......she is the inventor and author and preimminant authority on the matter...while the application of her study is a little different for sporting shooters the results are still the same....and not that the subjects are always looking straight at the object they are not cutting their eyes to the left or the right in all of her studies they are looking right over their nose straight ahead......let us know what you find...

we have two new books coming out in the spring where we talk about this specifically....stay tuned


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Gil Ash wrote:
we have two new books coming out in the spring where we talk about this specifically....stay tuned


Be looking for them

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:15 pm 
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This is an article that is on the USA Shooting site that may apply -

http://www.usashooting.org/library/Inst ... Aug_10.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Jerry did you look at the two photos posted on the parallel comb thread. What do u tink?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:43 pm 
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I like #2 more,there are some subtle differences and to my un trained eye it appears the shooter is more comfortable and relaxed in the #2 photo.

This is me a few years ago and still pretty much the same as now.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:08 pm 
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intermediate to advanced shooters miss most often because their eyes are moving when calling pull or their eyes anticipate the target and move when they call pull....both will result in consistent misses....gA


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:20 am 
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Gil Ash wrote:
intermediate to advanced shooters miss most often because their eyes are moving when calling pull or their eyes anticipate the target and move when they call pull....both will result in consistent misses....gA

Quite right Gil! I have been trying to learn to "soft focus" the start of the target pickup point. I often revert to a hard focus resulting in an eye movement further resulting in a miss! I have found that settling into a quiet eye is the last key step to the pre-shot routine. Chip

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Here's a comment to stir up controversy :) :

I will go on record stating that IF your look point is good AND you use "Quiet Eye" well, AND you know how to mount your gun without looking at it(!), it essentially will not matter where your hold point is when you call pull.

flamesuit donned! :D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:13 pm 
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Well Jack I have one down and one more decent and just beginning to understand and be more consistent in using the third :)

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Jack that is assuming that you know how to mount into the shot not mount and chase the target !!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Strike a blow for always seeing the target behind where the barrel is pointing .... always!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Jack, I think it matters because you still have understand the dynamics of the shot.... They are the prerequisite to evaluating your shot. You have to see/feel the shot coming together to know whether to make a correction or that you scr**ed the pooch. Do you have to shoot the same plan again to break the target or do you make a change? This principle is common in skeet where you ignore the miss unless you know what caused it. A technique that has broken umpteen thousand Low 2's is not changed for one miss.

I believe a sporting shooter has to understand the basics/dynamics of his shot to make logical changes. Break point, hold point and focal point are, we agree, all at the mercy of whether the eye is settled or roaming about. It is the same thing, to me, as the new shooter who swing his gun back and forth 3 - 4 times like he is "grooving" the kill. Lots of luck on that.

I constantly make changes on simple sporting targets I missed with the realization that they would have broken if they had been a skeet target. I know there is something I am missing about the target. Routinely it is that the target is off speed (slow more often than fast) for a skeet target and I am overleading. Easy correction and broken target the next time. I could not make those changes with confidence if I did not understand the dynamic of that particular target. Same is true for a 50 yard crosser totally unlike anything in skeet.

I helped a sporting shooter hit a target he was missing last weekend by getting him to use his eyes and understand the tempo of the shot. Wish I had 30 year younger eyes because I had no idea how to hit that target myself. Still, it was easy to get a younger shooter with good eyes and a solid background on the sporting clays field to understand "how" to shoot it with good form. I would say his hold point still varied by about 20 degrees maybe 30 feet difference on the trees 70 yards or so across the clearing from the shooting stand. Lousy control of his muzzle (hold point) but he could see and move with the target to break it when he used his eyes properly.

He thought it was something magical. In a few years he will just understand it is using his knowledge of the shot to set himself up for success.

Hope this makes sense. I agree the eyes are the biggest part of the equation to a knowledgeable shooter but there are so many shooters that have no idea what the target is doing and what it means to bring the shot together. Thank God shooting is actually so simple even when explaining can be complex. That's why I still go to instructors; good ones make it much easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Gil Ash wrote:
Jack that is assuming that you know how to mount into the shot not mount and chase the target !!!!

Of course sir! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:10 am 
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Gil Ash wrote:
Strike a blow for always seeing the target behind where the barrel is pointing .... always!!!


Gil, would you agree that an extension of that is the shooter should always be willing to miss in front in order to ensure the target is always behind the barrels?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:47 am 
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My coach says I often miss in front of the bird...by the way I am in the group that makes the E class guys look good! The funny thing is a miss from the front is still a miss from the front. The question is: is it easier to correct missing from the front or back because either way the clay escapes unbroken.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:11 am 
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SmokeJS wrote:
Gil Ash wrote:
Strike a blow for always seeing the target behind where the barrel is pointing .... always!!!


Gil, would you agree that an extension of that is the shooter should always be willing to miss in front in order to ensure the target is always behind the barrels?


Smoke, I'm not Gil, but here's my experience: many shooters will miss very fast and/or long targets behind; but then at some point, intermediate and advanced shooters having learned to add lead to those often will start missing moderate targets in front. Perhaps a bigger part of them missing in front however is due to them having learned to insert in front and stay in front. When this happens, lead picture shortens (and actually rather significantly) because they're now controlling the target with the muzzle instead of the other way around, so they miss in front until they learn the new -- and correct -- sight picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Smoke short answer

A moving target is either.... here it comes OR there it goes... what jack is describing is controlling the target from in front meaning always seeing the target coming to the lead allows for the brain to anticipate the targets arrival and consistently move the gun to the targets speed when the lead is correct. If you are still trying to play too far in front to hopefully hit the target you are using your short term memory to hit the target and it is not meant for consistent actions. To be consistent in hitting moving targets you must use your long term memory which is where all your skill resides. Your LTM(long term memory) is where all your skill resides and the more you can see the target coming to the lead the better your LTM can move the gun to the targets speed when the lead is correct.

Your LTM is a product of every thing you have done. The problem we see most often is that when shooters practice they are not predicting what they are about to do. They close the gun and call pull and then try to fix the shot at the end. When they do this they are using their short term memory which cannot do things consistently. They are not building a game they are trying to shoot a score. When practice is done correctly the shooter predicts what they are about to do and the exicutes the prediction and when successful they are building LONG TERM MEMORY that they can build on and use on future shots. The mor they predict and perform the more memory they have and the better and better they shoot.

Seeing the bird behind the barrel and watching it come to the lead is one of the most powerful things we have learned and our game is about to morph yet again based on the new information and it is amazing what can happen to your game when you know how to practice and build a game.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet Eye Article/s
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Being willing to miss is a short term memory approach.




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