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 Post subject: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:18 pm
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Location: South east Colorado, Aggieland Texas
For you guys who load your own Nice Shot...have you ever had a problem proving to the local game warden you are in fact shooting a non-tox shot? Have you ever had one check it out and wonder if it is legal? Thanks



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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:16 am 
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Around here, it is the conservation officer that needs to do the "proving." You can carry a copy of U.S. Patent #7,803,314 with you. :shock:

Nice Shot is also slightly magnetic, as there is a small percentage of iron in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Location: Nebraska
Sorry to disagree, but the CO doesn't need to do any proving. That is for Prosecutor, state, Federal, County whatever case may be. He can still write the ticket. Doesn't mean he is right, but he can sure right the ticket. Can he dismantle the shell? Does he have to then pay for the $4 shell he just dismantled?
I doubt it would come to that depending on officer and how the individual communicated with the said officer.
But the officer doesn't need to prove anything. You could stand there with a pocket full of steel shot shells thusly stamped, and he can still write you a ticket for not using non-tox. YOU would then be forced to defend yourself (not that any right minded prosecutor would prosecute such)


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Does this happen to you all the time? What do the regs say? If it bothers you, you can't tell from the regs, call the DNR and written get clarification prior to hunting.

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:18 pm
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Location: South east Colorado, Aggieland Texas
Just wondering if anyone had had a problem with this. When I reload, I use AA hulls. If I use nice shot in these hulls, do I just carry a rare earth magnet with me in case the gw does not have one? (I was told by the Nice Shot people it takes a powerful magnet to stick to Nice Shot) I really do not think it would ever be a problem, but I want to stay on the good side of the local gw.

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Then call your game warden tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:33 pm 
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I have had a few calls from a few game wardens, and after a short discussion they are quite happy with the information that I have given them.

And the manufacturer of the hand held detection device that the wardens use, has received several new samples of Nice Shot to recalibrate the equipment. A good rare earth magnet is what I am using now.

The formula hasn't changed just the improvements to manufacturing Nice Shot has.

Starting a dialogue with your local warden before season starts will let him know your not trying to be a bad guy. You wouldn't believe how many people haven't heard of Nice Shot, even though it was approve by the USFWS in 2006.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
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Location: Upstate SC
I can't believe that most game wardens, who are generally decent people, wouldn't be able to look at most guys crimps and see that they are reloads.

Then a polite talk, including "why don't you pick one at random and I'll open it open it up for you"...should suffice.

Those guys have a tough job, and are looking for people that are either clueless or knowingly breaking the law. Having your federal (and state-if not just printed on your license like here in Ohio) duck stamps signed on the front, and everything else legal, should go a long way towards them giving you any consideration due.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:00 pm
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Location: Central Missouri
I haven't seen it yet, but here in Missouri the Conservation Agents have density meters they carry and can quickly tell what you are shooting. That would ease all our fears when handloading non-tox if this worked everywhere......


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:28 pm 
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Location: Upstate SC
dnj21 wrote:
I haven't seen it yet, but here in Missouri the Conservation Agents have density meters they carry and can quickly tell what you are shooting. That would ease all our fears when handloading non-tox if this worked everywhere......


That sounds like a stretch! But it did remind me of one of my all time favorite (but corny) Game Warden jokes:

Quote:
A game warden came upon a duck hunter who had bagged 3 ducks and decided to “enforce the laws pending.” He stopped the hunter, flashed his badge and said, “Looks like you’ve had a pretty good day. Mind if I inspect your kill?” The hunter shrugged and handed the ducks to the warden.

The warden took one of the ducks, inserted his finger into the duck’s rectum, pulled it out, sniffed it, and said, “This here’s a Washington state duck. Do you have a Washington state hunting license?” The hunter pulled out his wallet and calmly showed the warden a Washington state hunting license.

The warden took a second duck, inserted his finger in the bird’s rectum, pulled it out, sniffed it, and said, “This here’s an Idaho duck. Do you have an Idaho state hunting license?” The hunter, a bit put out, produced an Idaho state hunting license.

The warden took a third duck, conducted the same finger
test, and said, “This here’s an Oregon state duck. Do you have an Oregon state hunting license?” Once again, only this time more aggravated, the hunter produced the appropriate license.

The warden, a little miffed at having struck out, handed
the ducks back to the hunter and said, “You’ve got all of these licenses, just where the hell are you from?”

The hunter dropped his pants, bent over, and said “You’re so smart, YOU tell ME!”


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:25 pm 
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I have nothing to add to this!!! LOL!

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Density checker wouldnt work would it? I thought it was the same density as lead. It smashes like lead, and it looks like lead shot.

I think the way to do it would be to explain to him it is a reloaded shell using non-toxic NICE shot. If he does not believe you, tell him to go ahead and pick a shell and you will open it up. Lift a crimp flap with your knife and dump out 3-4 pieces of shot. They should attract to his magnet slightly (they all carry magnets to check unmarked shells), and he will know right away it is not lead. Put the shot back in your hull and close the crimp flap.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Being honest guys, how well does this work? And can I substitute it in my handloads for lead of the same size? I might reload it if I determine it will be more economical

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Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:15 pm 
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It works about the same as lead, and you can substitute it in a lead recipe if you load by WEIGHT. There would be no advantage to shoot it over lead unless you are in an area that requires non-tox.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:18 pm 
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By "an area that requires non-tox", do you mean you can only shoot non-tox, or can you also shoot steel?

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Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
Jeremiah 16:16


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:50 pm 
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Steel is a non-tox. By a "non-tox area" I mean an area where lead is outlawed, such as state upland grounds or for waterfowl hunting. It is a vast improvement over steel, but it is pretty much the same as lead so there would be no reason to shoot a $2 shell to get the same performance as lead unless you cant shoot lead. It is also safe for old guns, so it is a great alternative if you have an older gun that you want to take waterfowl hunting.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:40 am 
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I duck hunt in Louisiana.... So it would definetly be worth it... If it hits geese anything like 3" turkey loads, I will DEFINITELY be ordering some.

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Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
Jeremiah 16:16


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:08 am
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My experience with a MN game warden. He checked my Benelli for 3 shots and ahd a strong magnet to check the shells. ITX passed as I had some with me. Asked him about Bismuth and was told that if he "had reason to question them" He would confiscate them and test them. If Nice Shot is magnetic then you will likely pass. Handloads are always more questionable than factory loads as he looked at my Federal steel loads and did not check them.
Another pointer. Iused to work with law enforcement ooficers. Be polite and even joke with them a bit and treat them as humans. I told this to one officer I knew and he chuckled and told me how he had pulled an individual over because he did not make a right turn where they had put up a RT sign in the middle of the street during the busy season. It was just a pull over for a curtesy notification, no ticket. The guy was a real jerk and the officer had a 28 (license check) run on him. Found he had a warrant for his arrest. Had the guy been polite he could have driven off and the officer none the wiser. I actually enjoyed my visit with the local warden and had a friendly chat with him. I had nothing to hide.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:30 pm
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I'm sure it's different now...but in the early days when bismuth shot first came out for reloading ('95 or '96...I think) I had a run in with a CO that pizzed me off a bit.

It was an early load using B. P. data. A 1 1/2 oz of buffered, bismuth #2 shot in a 3" Activ hull. BlueDot powder and an MG 42 wad. The load was DEADLY. For the first time in years I could anchor geese solidly AND consistently.

Anyway...about half way through a morning shoot we were visited by a local CO. The CO stated that he would be fully within his rights to cut open every one of my shells and test pellets for 'frangibility' with a pliers. At that point I did two things. I took out a box of Federal steel BB's and a plastic ziplock bag. I then politely (but very matter-of-fact) told him that if he did so...I'd still be shooting that morning (the Federal factory steel loads) and that all the shot he emptied from my hulls during the "testing" process would be going into the ziplock and not onto the ground. I was prepared for this. While most CO's are reasonable I've run into several that were just insufferable jackasses no matter how nice you were.

Being nice is the best option...but be prepared.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Shot and the game warden
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 82
Location: Indiana
Oddgauge wrote:
Sorry to disagree, but the CO doesn't need to do any proving. That is for Prosecutor, state, Federal, County whatever case may be. He can still write the ticket. Doesn't mean he is right, but he can sure right the ticket. Can he dismantle the shell? Does he have to then pay for the $4 shell he just dismantled?
I doubt it would come to that depending on officer and how the individual communicated with the said officer.
But the officer doesn't need to prove anything. You could stand there with a pocket full of steel shot shells thusly stamped, and he can still write you a ticket for not using non-tox. YOU would then be forced to defend yourself (not that any right minded prosecutor would prosecute such)


I put this question to the Indiana DNR.
I can no longer copy and paste the reply I got from one of the main COs of the INDR in Regulatory Enforcement but it was, in a nutshell that while it's GREAT if the hunter does attempt to make sure he has proof on him that his loads are legal IT IS the Officer's responsibility to PROVE that something is not legal, and not the hunter's obligation.

However, any efforts to do so would make the situation less aggravating to all.

2cents and IS about only here in Indiana.
God Bless




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