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 Post subject: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
Do any of you have the sub-gauge chamber buttons they install to make the chamber fit tighter?

I have a problem with my Federal reloads in 410, which bring the entire tube out upon ejection. I'm going to send off after the New Year to have the buttons installed, it isn't an expensive process, and I'm tired of trying grass, floss, etc.

Mark told me it was a quick turnaround when I spoke with him at the World shoot.




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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Yep. Have had them since 2009. Didn't do the 20s b/c they didn't need it (although they will probably need it next time I have the buttons replaced). 28s are still very tight, and 410s are still pretty tight, might need a re-do in the next couple years or so.

Then again, I still have the old style ejectors, which do not manually lift the hull, they are spring power only, so if I get a stuck hull, it just stays stuck until I knock it out with a brass knocker (maybe 1 hull per 1000 across the gauges gets stuck). I'd rather have to do that, then have a whole tube eject out of my gun, which is one of the reasons I never bothered to have the new style ejectors put in.

I always wondered why it seems like the 410 tubes loosen up the quickest.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:02 am 
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I only have a problem with my reloads. It will shoot factory all day long with no problems. But my Federal reloads will get stuck on a regular basis.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:21 pm
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I just had this done to my tubeset during the "annual" service at Kolar. Like you, most of the problems that I had were with Federal reloads where the tube would start to come out with the spent hull. I just got it back last week so I haven't had a chance to try them out.......maybe this weekend! Kolar did an excellent job, as usual, installing the buttons. See you in the spring John!

Regards, Jim B.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:23 pm 
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I usually don't mess around with reloading Federals, so I wouldn't know. Maybe try turning down your collet a little bit if you're using a MEC?

My first kolar would stick maybe 4-5 hulls on brand new Estate 20ga, so I got pretty adept at using a brass knocker.

Out of curiosity, how does the lifespan of the federal 410s, and the internal volume compare to the STS? I'm pretty happy w/ my 410 loads, but sometimes I see pretty good deals on Federal 410 hulls, so I might consider using them if I can just stick my STS recipe in them.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:02 am 
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I had almost a thousand empty Fed GM 410. Through experience of many years, I know them to be very much ZINGERS when reloaded. I always used 2400 powder in 410, ever since a kid.

I recently switched to 300MP powder in 410, simply to reduce chamber pressure to about 8000 psi. I have not had a zinger yet. I'm sure I could have gotten more out of them. But with the number I have on hand, I was happy with 5. I get really great looking crimps. I'm using a MEC 9000.

It seems to me the problem is the Fed hull gets "thicker" along the length, and it grabbing the chamber heavier after firing. Almost as if the heat of the burn is "fire-forming" the hull to the sides of the chamber. The same way factory shells drop easily in to a revolver, but are very tight when you pop them out after firing, because the brass expanded outwards the entire length.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:44 pm
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John Henry wrote:
I had almost a thousand empty Fed GM 410. Through experience of many years, I know them to be very much ZINGERS when reloaded. I always used 2400 powder in 410, ever since a kid.

I recently switched to 300MP powder in 410, simply to reduce chamber pressure to about 8000 psi. I have not had a zinger yet. I'm sure I could have gotten more out of them. But with the number I have on hand, I was happy with 5. I get really great looking crimps. I'm using a MEC 9000.

It seems to me the problem is the Fed hull gets "thicker" along the length, and it grabbing the chamber heavier after firing. Almost as if the heat of the burn is "fire-forming" the hull to the sides of the chamber. The same way factory shells drop easily in to a revolver, but are very tight when you pop them out after firing, because the brass expanded outwards the entire length.


What primer are you using, that is usually the problem the factory federal primer is slightly smaller in diameter, so when you stuff in a cheddite, winchester etc. they expand a little and get stuck mostly in the 28's and .410s.

I avoid reloading federal at all costs, diabolical those


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:35 am 
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Location: Northern Virginia
gwagen wrote:

What primer are you using, that is usually the problem the factory federal primer is slightly smaller in diameter, so when you stuff in a cheddite, winchester etc. they expand a little and get stuck mostly in the 28's and .410s.

I avoid reloading federal at all costs, diabolical those


I always load using Federal primers anyway. It's not the brass. It seems the hull actually swells in diameter once fired, and they get stuck in the chamber, not at the brass.

Will probably send off for the chamber buttons in Feb.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Location: Northern Virginia
put the barrel and 28 and 410 tubes in the mail today. They said about a 2 week turn-around.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Just spoke with Mike at Kolar, and the job is finished already and being shipped back! Love Kolar!!


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:48 pm 
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I just got my Kolar back from having an "annual" done and they installed the buttons on my tubes. I had not had any problem with the tubes pulling out, but did tell Mark to do whatever needed to be done. Obviously, he felt it was needed. I don't have the receipt in hand, but IIRC the cost of installing the buttons was around $200 for all three sets.

And, yes, I also "love Kolar!"

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:43 am 
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I think they told me $35 per tube, so $200 for a set seems about right.


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:04 pm 
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John Henry wrote:
I think they told me $35 per tube, so $200 for a set seems about right.


Yep, that's what it was; $210 for the full set for three gauges. Just checked the receipt.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:23 pm 
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OldSkeeter wrote:
John Henry wrote:
I think they told me $35 per tube, so $200 for a set seems about right.


Yep, that's what it was; $210 for the full set for three gauges. Just checked the receipt.


You could almost buy a new O/U for that! :) Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:49 pm 
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You drop 10K+ on a Kolar gun, you pump Kolar's tires relentlessly on this site, you were just on the podium at the Worlds and have just had a top level year and your Kolar tubes two years in are loose. You ship the tubes to them to do about 3 minutes of work and a buck in material and they nail you for $200 for a product that is essentially defective.

And people think us Canadians are too polite.

Mike's a great guy, I'm sure a very short conversation would have had that fee waived.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Yeah, I could add a couple hundred and buy a Stoeger. Who needs a Kolar anyway? But, then, I'd have to have sub-gauge tubes fitted to the Stoeger. Or, is the Stoeger good enough to shoot all four gauges without tubes?

Anyone not understanding this gibberish hasn't been reading the "cheap gun" threads on SGW.

Oh, and mwmham, you have certainly squelched the idea that at least some Canadians are "too polite."

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:22 pm 
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I shoot a Kolar and have had a great service from them. But I wouldn't pay $200 for work that should be covered by a warranty. It's insanity.

Oh, and OldSkeeter, very mature response.

Kolar owners are without a doubt the most touchy people around.

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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:15 pm
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Location: Northern Virginia
mwmham wrote:
I shoot a Kolar and have had a great service from them. But I wouldn't pay $200 for work that should be covered by a warranty. It's insanity.

Oh, and OldSkeeter, very mature response.

Kolar owners are without a doubt the most touchy people around.


I don't know what the cost is, (I only had the 28 and 410 done, not the whole set like old skeeter.) and I don't really care. It only happens when I shoot Federal reloads. All others are fine. I've seen it happen with Briley tubes as well.

Hey, what I spent on those buttons will be much less than I would have spent on three Krieghoff annuals over the same time frame!! :D

Also, I just bought a K-80 last week, kind of a toy gun. I'll never give up the Kolar, it's the best gun for ME!


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:41 am 
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Location: Northern Virginia
Barrel and tubes arrived back yesterday. Had the buttons put on 28 and 410. Was probably silly of me NOT to just go ahead and send the 20's as well, but they never gave me a problem.

Man are they tight now! Took real effort to get the tubes out of the gun. I like that! Need to load up some 410's and go shoot it soon. See how it works, although I'm sure it will stay put now!


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 Post subject: Re: Sub-gauge chamber "buttons"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:37 am 
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Location: Northern Virginia
CapHillSkt wrote:
I just had this done to my tubeset during the "annual" service at Kolar. Like you, most of the problems that I had were with Federal reloads where the tube would start to come out with the spent hull. I just got it back last week so I haven't had a chance to try them out.......maybe this weekend! Kolar did an excellent job, as usual, installing the buttons. See you in the spring John!

Regards, Jim B.


was good to see you this weekend, Jim!

With the new buttons, it's tight as can be. I'm back to using the Herkowitz tool to install the tubes! But I'm glad they're staying put!




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