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28ga Brass Catching on Tube
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=236&t=459322
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Author:  Fluke [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  28ga Brass Catching on Tube

On reloaded 28ga Winchester AA shells, I'm having an issue where the leading edge of the shell brass is catching (and deforming) on the Kolar tube when the gun is closed. This only happens on the lower barrel as the shell moves further into the tube when closing the gun. The deformation is happening at the location on the tube where there is a notch in the tube ID for the extractor piece to fit. When this happens, the deformation keeps the gun from being closed and the shell is ruined. Has anyone experienced this? It has not happened on new shells and I don't believe it has happened on newer reloads. It appears to fairly random, on 2 or 3 shells out of 100. The reloads are made on a Spolar.

Author:  Vette Jockey [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

My Kolar does the same thing with 28 gauge AAHS hulls. Besides that, my hulls show a slight bulge where the extractor is.

Author:  Skeet_Man [ Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

You may need to resize your brass better (difficult w/ a spolar, and may require a separate sizing operation) and put more of a radius on the mouth of the shell so it can slide into the chamber properly. If you can't drop a shell in the chamber and it drops all the way home under gravity like factory shells do, that's part of the problem.

If you have a gun like a Browning or Krieghoff where you can close the gun and open it again to reset the ejectors that will also eliminate the problem.

Author:  Vette Jockey [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Well, Ian, mine DO drop all the way to the ejector without resistance. I close the gun gently and can feel it stop. I open the gun, lift the shell, rotate it a few degrees and then close the gun. It goes closed without fail.

Author:  Skeet_Man [ Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

The AAHS has a shorter brass section than STS or Federal (or even the AACF if I remember right). It is also a little more problematic to get a good taper on the crimp

Do you have the same problem w/ AAHS factory shells? If not, it is an issue somewhere in your loading process for sure.

The only time I ever had this problem was when there wasn't enough taper on the crimp and the shell wouldn't slide into the chamber on it's own as the gun was closed. If the shell is retarded from sliding into the chamber, the act of closing the gun will push the shell UP and in, since the first point of contact b/w the breechface and shell is at 6 o'clock on the shell, which can cause the edge of the brass to get caught on the chamber cut, or it can also cause a two point jam where the rim of the shell is caught on the firing pin hole and the brass is caught on the chamber. This is what causes the jam.

I put more taper on the crimp, and haven't had the problem since. Dad had the same problem BAD, put more taper on the crimp, never had the problem again.

Author:  Steve Y [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

I cured this problem by resizing my AAHS hulls to slightly less then the mid point of the SAAMI spec. and more taper.


Steve

Author:  Fluke [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Thanks for the feedback.

The gun and tubes are Kolar and the reloaded AAHS shells drop in without assistance. I've got a MEC Super Sizer that I'll get a 28ga collet for to see if it helps. My tubes also give me a slight bulge near the rim on the 28 ga Win AAHS hulls after firing. I could switch to Remington STS shells, but I've got barrels of AAHS hulls.

Author:  Vette Jockey [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Skeet_Man wrote:
The AAHS has a shorter brass section than STS or Federal (or even the AACF if I remember right). It is also a little more problematic to get a good taper on the crimp

Do you have the same problem w/ AAHS factory shells? Couldn't say; I've NEVER bought factory-loaded 28's. If not, it is an issue somewhere in your loading process for sure.


I put more taper on the crimp, and haven't had the problem since. Dad had the same problem BAD, put more taper on the crimp, never had the problem again.
I've got several hundred loaded. I'll run the final crimp die down a bit and process 100 or so to see if that makes a difference.

Author:  Skeet_Man [ Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Keep running the taper crimp down (last station on a mec, not sure how others are adjusted) until the problem goes away or you start buckling shells, you really can't have too much taper unless you're crushing the shell @ the bottom.

Author:  Vette Jockey [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Skeet_Man wrote:
Keep running the taper crimp down (last station on a mec, not sure how others are adjusted) until the problem goes away or you start buckling shells, you really can't have too much taper unless you're crushing the shell @ the bottom.

I did this, 1/2 turn at a time. All I managed to do was booger up the top of the hull's crimp. I set it back the way it was; I'll just put up with the occasional pinched shell.

Author:  John Henry [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Vette Jockey wrote:
My Kolar does the same thing with 28 gauge AAHS hulls. Besides that, my hulls show a slight bulge where the extractor is.


I have also discovered the slight bulge in the brass where the extractor opening was. I discovered this because sometimes that bulge was just enough to stick in the shell carrier play on the MEC 9000. This would sometimes result in the shell not dropping right away and therefore the resizing collet squeezing and bulging the brass.

Once I discovered what was happening, it was easy to give the show a slight twist to make sure it's set loosely in the shell carrier place and therefore eliminate the problem .

Author:  simsy9 [ Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

I have this problem on my Kolar tubes also. It's actually from the crimp end of the hull being too large and starting to rub the chamber as it's pushed all the way in. It happens on the bottom barrel most often because the shell is pushed into the chamber by the receiver face at an angle. That angle, along with the resistance of the crimp end in the chamber, causes the brass to be pushed against the edge of the bottom tube, where it will catch. The top barrel has its shell pushed it with much less angle, which is why the brass doesn't catch as often.

More taper, like Skeet Man said, is the answer.

Author:  Skeet_Man [ Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

In retrospect I could have been clearer about how to test the shells to see if they have enough taper.

Remove the tube from the gun, then test, it should be able to drop all the way flush with zero resistance. If you are doing the test with the shell in the gun you could get a false negative.

Author:  headhunter1 [ Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

make sure the 20ga tubes aren't cracked. I had a problem with the Briley tubes and found the tube was cracked near the ejecter. worth a close look.

Author:  John H [ Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Had this problem in Briley 28 ga tubes. Brass was catching on the ejector notch on the tube. I took a very fine stone and worked the edge of the ejector cut to create a slight bevel rather than a sharp edge. I have not had a single recurrence since.

Author:  Texas Yankee [ Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Excellent post since I'm in the market for tubes for my Max Sporting. Does anyone out there have tubes for their Max Sporting and do you find the added weight to be an issue?

Author:  Fluke [ Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Just an update on this issue - I had Kolar look at the lower 28ga tube during the World in San Antonio in October last year. They adjusted the tube extractor piece to remove most of the slop that was present. This helped reduce the frequency of the issue, but did not completely stop it from happening. I then used a stone by hand to very slightly soften/radius the sharp inside edge of the tube just below where the extractor piece fits which is what the hulls were catching on. This appears to have completely taken care of the issue (thanks - John H).

Author:  Thesolo1 [ Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

I have figured out this issue through many instances of this issue. It’s the “bugle effect” on the crimp. If you have the final crimp to deep, it flares the end. You need to back out the final crimp and throw a little more taper on it. This has corrected the issue for me.

Author:  Vette Jockey [ Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Skeet_Man wrote:
In retrospect I could have been clearer about how to test the shells to see if they have enough taper.

Remove the tube from the gun, then test, it should be able to drop all the way flush with zero resistance. If you are doing the test with the shell in the gun you could get a false negative.

At your suggestion I've done this. I even purchased a new final crimp die. I've got the shells to where they will all drop fully into the tubes. I mean they drop without any resistance. Yet, in spite of that, I still get 1 or 2 per box that will hang up.

I've now adjusted the size of the collet so it resizes smaller and I'm shooting them tomorrow, so we'll see if that makes any difference.

Author:  Steve Y [ Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 28ga Brass Catching on Tube

Vette Jockey wrote:
Skeet_Man wrote:
In retrospect I could have been clearer about how to test the shells to see if they have enough taper.

Remove the tube from the gun, then test, it should be able to drop all the way flush with zero resistance. If you are doing the test with the shell in the gun you could get a false negative.

At your suggestion I've done this. I even purchased a new final crimp die. I've got the shells to where they will all drop fully into the tubes. I mean they drop without any resistance. Yet, in spite of that, I still get 1 or 2 per box that will hang up.

I've now adjusted the size of the collet so it resizes smaller and I'm shooting them tomorrow, so we'll see if that makes any difference.


^^^^^^
That is what worked for me too.


Steve

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