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 Post subject: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:50 pm 
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Am I right in thinking the Webley and Scott shotguns are made by Akus? I've been considering a S&W or Dickinson 20 gauge for a while now, and it looks like Webley and Scott=S&W=Dickinson.

http://webleyandscott.com/shop/proddeta ... 2012G28SXS

Also, Buds has them stock right now.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... le+Trigger




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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:12 pm 
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Yup, Webley and Scott, SKB, Dickinson, Kimber, and the Smith & Wesson Elite Gold are all AKUS SXS's.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:05 pm 
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Listing at Bud's says single trigger, photo shows double trigger. Seems a little pricey to me. For the $$$ over the price of a Dickinson, you get an oil finish on the stock and a leather hard case. And of course the Webley & Scott name, for whatever that's worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:55 am 
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When I look at the Buds website, they have both single and double triggers available with 28" barrels, single trigger only with 26" barrels. All priced at $1499.00 delivered.

Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:15 am 
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I've been wanting a 20 gauge SxS for a long time, but now I see that the Dickinson is available in 16 gauge built on the 20 gauge frame. Hmmm decisions, decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:53 pm 
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PBeaver wrote:
When I look at the Buds website, they have both single and double triggers available with 28" barrels, single trigger only with 26" barrels. All priced at $1499.00 delivered.

Phil


You're right - I should have browsed a bit. I just looked at the link in the OP. Makes me wonder how Bud's can sell at that big a discount from the MSRP of $2749.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:10 pm 
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jer901 wrote:
PBeaver wrote:
When I look at the Buds website, they have both single and double triggers available with 28" barrels, single trigger only with 26" barrels. All priced at $1499.00 delivered.

Phil


You're right - I should have browsed a bit. I just looked at the link in the OP. Makes me wonder how Bud's can sell at that big a discount from the MSRP of $2749.


Artificially high MSRP to make it seem like you're getting a great deal I'd guess, they all seem to be in a similar price range. Depending on how nice of a case comes with the Webley it seems like a ok deal. I think Cabelas had the Dickinsons for $1299 a while back.


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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:30 pm 
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kpot2004 wrote:
jer901 wrote:
PBeaver wrote:
When I look at the Buds website, they have both single and double triggers available with 28" barrels, single trigger only with 26" barrels. All priced at $1499.00 delivered.

Phil


You're right - I should have browsed a bit. I just looked at the link in the OP. Makes me wonder how Bud's can sell at that big a discount from the MSRP of $2749.


Artificially high MSRP to make it seem like you're getting a great deal I'd guess, they all seem to be in a similar price range. Depending on how nice of a case comes with the Webley it seems like a ok deal. I think Cabelas had the Dickinsons for $1299 a while back.


Cabela's is all over the place on their pricing of Dickinsons. I paid $1299 for my 20 gauge and $1439 for my 28 gauge. The 20 gauge was advertised at that price and the 28 gauge was discounted to me. I'm happy as hell with both of them.

I would think that Webley & Scott, being the importer, would be selling guns to distributors and/or dealers at a somewhat higher price than the Dickinsons - otherwise why set the MSRP so high. New SKBs by Akus start at $2100 MSRP with a street price around $1900. Lots of behind the scenes mystery in the pricing of guns with different labels made in the same factory.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:31 am 
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That kind of deep discounting on the Webley & Scott reminds me of how Smith & Wesson moved the last inventory of its Gold Elites. The way Cabela's prices the Dickinsons (and what you're saying about SKB's list/street prices) seems consistent to me with how merchants move merchandise seasonally, clear out inventory for the upcoming year, etc. Clearly, you can get $200-300 of a Cabela's Dickinson just by waiting (but that's the typical list/street price phenomena). But I haven't seen any new SKBs or Dickinsons for half price anywhere.

If I had to guess, W&S is about to join Kimber and S&W in the graveyard of failed attempts to market a Turkish gun to Americans for >$2k. SKB and Dickinson will do just fine as long as they don't get greedy.

All that said, as the owner of both a S&W Gold Elite and a Dickinson from Cabela's, I've got to say that the fit, finish, stock, etc. on my Gold Elite is finer that on my Dickinson, so I think some incremental price difference is reasonable. We tend to talk of the various AKUS guns as though they are fungible, but obviously in each case AKUS is manufacturing to slightly different importer specifications. Personally, I'm kind of curious about how good a gun AKUS could build if you just cut them loose on a custom project.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:05 am 
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apachecadillac wrote:
That kind of deep discounting on the Webley & Scott reminds me of how Smith & Wesson moved the last inventory of its Gold Elites. The way Cabela's prices the Dickinsons (and what you're saying about SKB's list/street prices) seems consistent to me with how merchants move merchandise seasonally, clear out inventory for the upcoming year, etc. Clearly, you can get $200-300 of a Cabela's Dickinson just by waiting (but that's the typical list/street price phenomena). But I haven't seen any new SKBs or Dickinsons for half price anywhere.

If I had to guess, W&S is about to join Kimber and S&W in the graveyard of failed attempts to market a Turkish gun to Americans for >$2k. SKB and Dickinson will do just fine as long as they don't get greedy.

All that said, as the owner of both a S&W Gold Elite and a Dickinson from Cabela's, I've got to say that the fit, finish, stock, etc. on my Gold Elite is finer that on my Dickinson, so I think some incremental price difference is reasonable. We tend to talk of the various AKUS guns as though they are fungible, but obviously in each case AKUS is manufacturing to slightly different importer specifications. Personally, I'm kind of curious about how good a gun AKUS could build if you just cut them loose on a custom project.


You simply have to remember the Kimber custom built sidelocks as to what AKUS can do. I see them as being in the same place as a lot of Spanish makers (most gone now) who would basically build guns to nearly any price point desired. It led to the saying in Spanish gun purchasing, "Buy the gun, not the maker." The custom Dickinson I recently purchased seems to compare favorably with my S&W Elite Gold, but I suspect they wanted to showcase their custom ordered guns to expand that market. In the Huglu line though, the custom built DeHaan guns are definitely built to a higher standard than the CZ line.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:21 am 
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I'm thinking the W&S guns Bud's has are simply Dickinson equivalents branded W&S. I don't see the equivalent guns on the W&S website.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:22 am 
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RM--

Interesting that you would mention the Kimber sidelock. That thought crossed my mind when I wrote my post. And I think there are a couple of AKUS sidelocks up on gunbroker for around $3500-4000 right now. Personally, I prefer the triggerplate action to the sidelock, but YMMV.

As for your special order (which is a beautiful gun, BTW, thanks for posting the pics in another thread), I'll bet you are right about how it compares to the Cabela's alternative and the Gold Elite, too. But didn't you get a hand rubber oil finish on your special order? My Gold Elite has the crappy varnish that shines when new and comes off when used. From the pics, at least, your new gun appeared to be finished a bit better than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:29 pm 
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apachecadillac wrote:
RM--

Interesting that you would mention the Kimber sidelock. That thought crossed my mind when I wrote my post. And I think there are a couple of AKUS sidelocks up on gunbroker for around $3500-4000 right now. Personally, I prefer the triggerplate action to the sidelock, but YMMV.

As for your special order (which is a beautiful gun, BTW, thanks for posting the pics in another thread), I'll bet you are right about how it compares to the Cabela's alternative and the Gold Elite, too. But didn't you get a hand rubber oil finish on your special order? My Gold Elite has the crappy varnish that shines when new and comes off when used. From the pics, at least, your new gun appeared to be finished a bit better than that.


Yes, the Dickinson I got has a very nice hand rubbed oil finish, compared to the poly finish on the S&W, I definitely like the oil finish better.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Is anyone else selling the Dickinsons besides Cabelas or custom ordering?


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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:38 pm 
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kpot2004 wrote:
Is anyone else selling the Dickinsons besides Cabelas or custom ordering?



Go to this link to see the story of special ordering a custom Dickinson.
viewtopic.php?f=137&t=412004

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:58 pm 
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I am still figuring out what "options" I want for my custom "Dickinson" but I'll pass along what I have learned so far in searching for my perfect SxS that I can actually afford.

1) The gun we have all seen on the Cabela's website is the basic "Estate" model from AKUS.

2) This gun can be "customized" almost any way you want it....fancy wood, full scroll engraving, custom stock dimensions...pretty much anything you want. Naturally many of these "options" cost extra money.

3) But what is really intriguing to me is how many "options" seem to be available at NO EXTRA COST. As yet, there is no set price list for options that I know of, but you can contact "hlj3" via PM for information and price quotes. I don't have the full details, but here follows a list of "options" that I *believe* would all be available at no additional cost on a base price of about $1,750.

1) Case Colors, silver or black receiver. All with the same 25% scroll engraving.

2) Ejectors or extractors.

3) Choke tubes or fixed chokes.

4) Oil, varnish or satin finish.

5) Splinter, beavertail or Schnabel fore-end.

6) Barrel finish....Rust Blue or Black Chrome.

7) Single or double trigger.

8 ) 24, 26, 28 or 30" barrels.

9) English, POW or pistol grip.

10) Checkered butt plate or others.

Again. I am not the seller and do not have an options cost list, but from my research it *appears* that the options listed above would all be included in a base price of about $1,750. Right about $150 more than the "off the shelf" Cabela's version.

But as I said, contact hlj3 via PM here on SGW for a price quote on a "Made just for YOU" Dickinson.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:12 am 
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I bought a Webley 820 semi made it turkey .locking bolt broke can not
Find one any where in the uk .or any other parts for that matter .it seems like when they
Stop making the gun they stop making parts as well . Keep being told that turkey gun manufacturers don't make spares when the gun goes out of production how true that is I don't now


Last edited by Swinton on Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:06 am 
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Swinton wrote:
I bought a Webley 820 semi made it turkey .locking bolt broke can not
Find one any where in the uk .or any other parts for that matter .it seems like when they
Stop making the gun they stop making parts as well .i would keep away from Webley
They are not as good as when made in uk they are cheap Turkish crap


Does W&S not have a customer service department in the UK? If not, try W&S in the US. They appear to carry a 800 series semi-auto http://webleyandscott.com/us-shotguns/ so assuming it is the same gun I would think they had parts for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:13 am 
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The USA warranty station for Dickinson is P.I.S.C.O. (gunshop) in Oregon, phone 541-396-5558.


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 Post subject: Re: Webley and Scott = Akus?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:03 am 
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There is a w&s in uk but they say they have no spares any more all the 800 series parts are different according to Webley .i belive I found the part in the us but the p&p was way to high
It was more than the gun is worth




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