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 Post subject: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:58 pm 
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Does anyone have a loading for 12ga Rio Hulls, Fio primers, and Clays about 1200 fps and 1oz of lead? I've been using Red Dot but if Clays gets competitive I might try some. Thanks!




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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:33 pm 
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My source doesn't show RIO hulls with FIO primers, only RIO primers, but the charges used in both hulls (basically the same hulls) with either primer use between 19 and 20 grains of Clays for 8000 psi +/- and 1200 fps +/-.

I dunno if I'm smart enough to know how to send a scan of a few pages.

Also, check http://www.hodgdon.com They have loading data, and you can just use the date for any Cheddite hull or Federal GM.

Edit to add: You didn't state your wad of choice, this source is mostly using the PT series of wads. The 1205 and 1232 were the two wads involved above.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:17 am 
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Thanks Oldtech, I use the CB6100-12 with 18.5gr red Dot presently. I hate to interpolate loadings using other components but suspect 18.5gr Clays would work without excessive pressures. I am surprised Hodgdon dose not reference that wad or the Fio primer which fits perfectly in Cheddite hulls.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:28 am 
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I believe that Rio primers are 0.245" and Cheddite and Fiocchi are 0.241" while CCI, Federal, Remington and Winchester are 0.240". You will want to confirm these measurements. I recently noticed that Win 209 primers were very loose in my Fiocchi hulls, but Cheddite primers were snug.

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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Nightcrawler wrote:
Does anyone have a loading for 12ga Rio Hulls, Fio primers, and Clays about 1200 fps and 1oz of lead?

When I was loading Clays, I was loading 20.0 grains of Clays for 1-ounce with either a Rio primer, or the Fiocchi Fio 616 primer and either a CB6100, or the Gualandi GU-1225.

More often than not, the Fiocchi Fio 616 don't perform well with Clays powder when compared to the Rio G-600. But there are certain sweet-spot loads (albeit rare) where they do perform Ok, and on rare occasions, better than the Rio G-600. But that's more the exception than the norm :

Image

Someplace I have matching chrono data for ~20.0 grains of Clays in that load, but with the CB6100. The Avg velocity for the CB6100 is about 30-35 fps slower that the GU-1225.

One thing to watch for if you load the CB6100, is to make sure that you have "enough" powder to keep the edge of the powder cup of the CB6100 above the top edge of the basewad in the Rio blue hulls.

18.5 grains of Clays in a Rio blue for 1-ounce will "work" (with any primer), but it's my opinion that this is too light of a powder charge. Pressure will be too low, and you may risk having the lip of the power cup on the CB6100 catching on the top edge of the basewad and canting the powder cup.

You can cut inspection slots at the bottom of the loaded shells to see if this is happening:
Image

With 20 gr of Clays, there should be a visible gap between the cup and basewad:
Image

So I'd say start with 20.0 gr of Clays until you find an actual reason to load less.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:33 pm 
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I've had good results with 18 gr of clays with the CB 6100 wads, 1oz and Fio 616 primers. My primitive guage for loads is the birchwood - casey shell catcher. with 1210 fps 1 oz Rio factory loads the shell catcher works perfectly on my 1100. At 18 gr my reloads work just like the factory loads. At 19 gr the hulls are thrown from the shell catcher. I've had no issues on cold weather. I have since switched to the Rio 1000 primers because of better fit in the Rio hulls. The Fio primers are slightly smaller and are not quite as tight in the primer pocket. For peace of mind I used the BPI primer pocket tool to make sure the primer pockets were tight enough to assure no primers backing out in my autoloader. The Rio primer eliminates the need for this step.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:00 pm 
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shellback wrote:
I have since switched to the Rio 1000 primers because of better fit in the Rio hulls.

That was a very wise move. It doesn't help you on primer fit (because the fit of the Fio 616's is fine in the Rio blue's, even in an autoloader), but from a performance perspective, you now have an advantage. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Man, those photos saved me a lot of time, back when I was using those component combinations! {hs#

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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Republican wrote:



18.5 grains of Clays in a Rio blue for 1-ounce will "work" (with any primer), but it's my opinion that this is too light of a powder charge. Pressure will be too low, and you may risk having the lip of the power cup on the CB6100 catching on the top edge of the basewad and canting the powder cup.

You can cut inspection slots at the bottom of the loaded shells to see if this is happening:
Image

With 20 gr of Clays, there should be a visible gap between the cup and basewad:
Image

So I'd say start with 20.0 gr of Clays until you find an actual reason to load less.


Stupid suggestion, but if someone just has to load down to this 18.5 gr of clays in the RIO blues, so you suppose that a taper wad would be their best friend. I mean, that little lead-in taper of many of those tapered wads would snuggle right down in that basewad wedge, and if it would obturate like any other taper wad in a taper hull then things would be jiggy. Just thinkin' out loud here.


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 Post subject: Re: Rio hulls and Hodgdon Clays
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:27 pm 
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oldtechshooter wrote:
Stupid suggestion, but if someone just has to load down to this 18.5 gr of clays in the RIO blues, so you suppose that a taper wad would be their best friend. I mean, that little lead-in taper of many of those tapered wads would snuggle right down in that basewad wedge, and if it would obturate like any other taper wad in a taper hull then things would be jiggy. Just thinkin' out loud here.

That is "somewhat" true ....
i.e. a green duster does just that, - snuggles itself right down inside the base wad.

However, if I recall, it didn't help consistency (in terms of EV and SD). Not sure why, but I think that when it lifts off the edge of the base wad, too much gas blow-by happens to get it to fly out and re-seal against just the wall tube, and there goes your numbers. I seem to recall the numbers were worse for this arrangement than it was for a slightly cocked CB-6100.




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