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 Post subject: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Article
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:40 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
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Location: Sharon, SC USA
This article has sparked quite a bit of discussion....

http://shootingsportsman.com/seven-guns-from-seven-makers/

Best,

Will



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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:47 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 8325
Location: Upstate SC
I thought it was interesting that several of the top 7 shooters had their barrels ported although the standard response in here is always that it's " worthless and too loud".

Also that it's seems like fixed chokes are preferred by about half the guys; at IM in both barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:09 pm
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Location: Omaha, NE
Thanks for posting

I found it interesting that trigger pull for everyone was right at 3lbs, and length of pull was pretty close for all of them as well.

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Jim

Eye on the rock, head on the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:35 am 
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Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
I find the length of pull interesting. All over 15 inch. Some 15.5 inch. I'm 6' 3" and shoot 15" lop for my field guns. Are all these guys tall? All over 6 foot. If not why are they shooting guns with such long length of pulls compared to the typical shotgun?


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:19 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
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Location: Sharon, SC USA
Guys,
All of us in the article are seasoned, experienced shooters. Generally speaking( though not always), the more experience you have, the longer and higher you like your stocks.

Best,

Will

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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Location: Lower Hudson Valley, New York
xsshooter wrote:
Thanks for posting

I found it interesting that trigger pull for everyone was right at 3lbs, and length of pull was pretty close for all of them as well.


Yep.......No sloppy triggers nor 8lb pull weights to be found. When it comes to extra Xs, good triggers separate the men from the boys, as I've stated before.


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:59 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:48 am
Posts: 245
Location: NE Ohio
Only one of 7 with 34" barrels.
A lot of small beads, one no bead at all, interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:50 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 274
Location: Southeastern, WI
Will,

I have read more than once that when a shooter gets more experienced they prefer a longer stock, and now I saw that you just mentioned the same thing. Can you explain what changes? I am really curious about this because I see so many pro shooters get really far forward on the gun, it almost seems they shorten the stock.

Thank you,
Andy Kalmer

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K-80 Sporting
NSCA # 630162


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:50 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 274
Location: Southeastern, WI
Will,

I have read more than once that when a shooter gets more experienced they prefer a longer stock, and now I saw that you just mentioned the same thing. Can you explain what changes? I am really curious about this because I see so many pro shooters get really far forward on the gun, it almost seems they shorten the stock.

Thank you,
Andy Kalmer

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Andy K
K-80 Sporting
NSCA # 630162


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:01 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 743
Location: Sharon, SC USA
Andy,
Good question, and I'm not 100% sure of the answer, as I believe it comes from different places with different folks....but the same result does seem to be very prevalent. I know, however that the further into the gun someone gets, the better they handle recoil, and I think that has a lot to do with the trend. The more experienced we get, the faster we need to recover from recoil, and move to the next bird. Weight forward, including the weight of your head, helps with that.

YMMV,

Best,

Will

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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:18 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:30 am
Posts: 274
Location: Southeastern, WI
Thank you for the response Will!

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K-80 Sporting
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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:17 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:56 am
Posts: 752
How do you get a gun so you can see the whole rib, and still get it to shoot flat?


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:09 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 743
Location: Sharon, SC USA
jr,
I'm not sure I understand your question....give me a little more to go on?

Best,

Will

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Will Fennell
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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:41 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:56 am
Posts: 752
Will Fennell wrote:
jr,
I'm not sure I understand your question....give me a little more to go on?

Best,

Will


Anthony's quote and others referring to a higher comb, and seeing the entire rib. The old rule of thumb was mid bead behind front bead = 50/50 poi; stacked figure 8 was 60/40, and space between mid and front = 70/30 or higher poi. Etc.

So assuming the sporting pros are not shooting 90% high poi like a trap shooter, how do you set up a gun to see the whole rib, and still shoot flat e.g 50/50 or 60/40?


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:10 pm 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 743
Location: Sharon, SC USA
jr,
Now I see what you are referring to....the answer is simple, most of us have guns that are set up to shoot higher than 50/50. My K-80 Parcours is stocked so that it shoots approx 65/35. Keep in mind, when someone 'sees the whole rib', that just means their pupil is above the rib. If you see any rib, you are seeing the whole rib. After that, its a matter of how high above the rib you have your pupil.

And, now to answer the inevitable next question, yes, I certainly must be floating the bird, but I am not aware of it. I handed a student my gun to try this past weekend, and his first comment was 'wow this thing has a high comb, I'll shoot over everything with it!'....he shot a box of shells and never missed a bird. After we were done, he admitted that he was not aware of floating birds.....

YMMV.

Best,

Will

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Will Fennell
www.fennellshootingschool.com


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:16 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:20 pm
Posts: 2190
Location: Australia
As will has stated, I think quite a lot of things in shotgun shooting are done sub-consciously.
I liken gun down shooting to the a golf swing settup.
In my experience, very little in a golf swing setup has anything at all to do with the final swing which is apparent in most photography of a golfers body position & etc, right at the moment the club contacts the ball. You know the mantra.......square on to the ball or maybe slightly back with the front foot, club handle slightly down & not straight out from the hands & on & on.
Watch a slow mo of a tee off & you'll see what I'm getting at.
Well, after a great deal of studying myself & other shooters, I've come to the conclusion that, few of us actually shoot with the gun set-up we think we do.
I think that most gun down shooters naturally move the gun into a lower position which, causes a higher poi than they realize.
The shooter may not do this every time but, not knowing when one does this is the problem.
I decided a while back, to get some help from a friend to try & determine what I was actually doing during my gun mount.
We went down to the local GC where, he would set targets to flight at my call but, at random intervals, he would shout out STOP. Right then & there, I would freeze on that gun & not move a muscle.
We found that, I was consistently mounting the gun stock lower on my face than I realized, even though I would swear blind that my mount was where I thought it should be. This was causing me to shoot over the target quite consistently.
Since then, I've dropped the comb a little & my consistency has returned.
Maybe this is b/c I hate floating the target b/c I know that most targets are falling when we pull the trigger.

With regard to beadless shooting, my Beretta auto bbl bead fell off about 8 months back so, after reading many posts about how many shooters don't need the bead, I decided to go with it & give it a good shake. Disastrous is what I found. While the bbl was pointed into the sky it was ok but, as soon as that bbl got down into the trees, I couldn't tell where my bbls were.
Now I don't sight along the bbls but, I do need to be aware of where they are.
I tried this for 8 months with no improvement. I also found that I was way too slow in getting my shot off &, many commented on this difference in my normal shooting.
Shooting with no bead is FFFFFFundamentally retarded, IMHO.


Regards....................SoT

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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:21 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 743
Location: Sharon, SC USA
Thurlo,
When students come to me for the first time, they are VERY frequently not mounting/moving the gun as they think they are.....a very easy way for the shooter to get a better idea of what is going on, is to simply have someone video them. Smartphone video is amazing quality these days.

Regarding shooting with or without a bead, I have worked with many from both camps. Be careful of broad statements such as yours, because this is certainly a case of YMMV( YourMilageMayVary). Personally, I use a very small 'mid bead' on the end of the rib, just to define the middle of the rib. However, I find a 'regular' full size bead very distracting, and shoot better with no bead, than your typical full size bead.

Again, YMMV.

Best,

Will

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Will Fennell
www.fennellshootingschool.com


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:30 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:20 pm
Posts: 2190
Location: Australia
Will Fennell wrote:
Thurlo,
When students come to me for the first time, they are VERY frequently not mounting/moving the gun as they think they are.....a very easy way for the shooter to get a better idea of what is going on, is to simply have someone video them. Smartphone video is amazing quality these days.

Regarding shooting with or without a bead, I have worked with many from both camps. Be careful of broad statements such as yours, because this is certainly a case of YMMV( YourMilageMayVary). Personally, I use a very small 'mid bead' on the end of the rib, just to define the middle of the rib. However, I find a 'regular' full size bead very distracting, and shoot better with no bead, than your typical full size bead.

Again, YMMV.

Best,

Will


Thank you Will,
To be clear, I was not intending to be disagreeable in my last post. I apologize if I came across that way.
Yes, I agree somewhat with YMMV however, I have tried using no bead a couple times over the yrs but, not for long, accept for this last stint I mentioned.
As far as I'm aware, I don't think I bbl measure too much, at least I try not to.
However, we do need to know where the bbls are in order to give the appropriate allowance &, with no bbl bead, this is difficult for me b/c the bbls are black & often blend in to the background.
I normally use a small red bead which, is very easy to see while looking at the target. Without that bead, I found myself actually trying to find the dang bbls in the background clutter. I've not noticed myself take the time during a shot to do this before, it was very off-putting.
I do acknowledge that there are many whom don't use a bead & YMMV must apply although, I will state that, I'm at a loss as to how they determine correct allowance if they can't see the bbl at certain times.

Kind regards..................SoT.

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Sydney J. Harris


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:51 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:48 am
Posts: 245
Location: NE Ohio
I removed my bead on the end of the barrel. It was pretty large and white. I certainly haven't shot any worse without it. My gun is fitted with a custom stock and shoots where I look . I am having difficulty totally focusing on the target and found myself looking back to the barrel. We all know that doesn't work. I don't seem to look back to the barrel without the bead nearly as much. When i'm totally focused only on the target good things happen. I think no bead has helped me with that. I think everyones different and you have to find out what works for you.
Cheers
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: You might find this interesting! Shooting Sportsman Arti
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:48 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2209
davezander wrote:
I removed my bead on the end of the barrel. It was pretty large and white. I certainly haven't shot any worse without it. My gun is fitted with a custom stock and shoots where I look . I am having difficulty totally focusing on the target and found myself looking back to the barrel. We all know that doesn't work. I don't seem to look back to the barrel without the bead nearly as much. When i'm totally focused only on the target good things happen. I think no bead has helped me with that. I think everyones different and you have to find out what works for you.
Cheers
Dave


Yep, same for me. Two Pguns with the small front sight and mid bead - took them off and now a clean runway. Found myself like others, somtimes looking back or seeing the front sight as i trigger the shot but still focusing on the tgt. Whatever your eye/brain connection works best for you in the heat of a big tournament when the pressure rises.




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