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 Post subject: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 616
Will, wondering if you have any cures for the low gun sporting clays shooter who struggles to consistently get the gun to the cheek and eye but instead often stops the mount at the jawbone?
In an earlier post I noted how my straightaway, trap-type shot success improved with a pre-mount that includes a firm cheek mount. Would like to ingrain that same feeling on crossers.




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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:03 am 
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it's easy to practice a mount firmly into the cheek-bone at home.

Or shoot crossers w/ a premount.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:15 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 743
Location: Sharon, SC USA
smokey,
First, make sure your gun fit allows the comb to GET to your cheek easily....then practice your gun mount.

Sera, shooting crossers pre-mounted is only the answer if you are too lazy to learn to mount the gun correctly/consistently( barring some physically malady that bars you from mounting the gun).

Best,

Will

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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 am
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Thanks Will. One thing I'm learning about gun fit is that it's not one stop shopping as it keeps changing as my swing evolves. So one followup question about my right handed stance and how it relates to gun fit. With my feet pointed at 12:30 and 2:30 relative to the break point my body assumes a central position between my feet which means my belly button is turned about 45 degrees to the right from the break point. The natural position of my head is in line with my core so it's also 45 degrees from the break point. Would you agree that my head position is a reasonable element of my ready position and that my gun fit should consider that? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:04 am 
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Will--not trying to be contrary but Bobby F won the Worlds shooting pre-mount on everything.

I agree w/ you that pre-mount is not best for all targets , but if there's a reason a shooter cannot achieve a good mount , perhaps pre-mount is an alternative.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:50 am 
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Smokey,
Tough to digest all you just described without seeing it in person, but it might be easier for me to describe how I set up for a shot regarding my feet. I stand with my feet in a natural-conversational stance, so that my left toes point at the kill zone. I then turn my body at the knees and ankles back to the hold point. Hope this helps.

Sera, not to be contrary, but if you think that pre-mount is not best for all presentations, how do you square that up with your comment about Bobby's great performance?

The answer lies somewhere in the fact that good shoot can be done in lots of ways/techniques......I don't think that all the various techniques are the BEST way for most students to learn. Also, there is probably some disconnect with what some refer to as 'pre mount'. Bobby certainly has the gun in his shoulder pocket, but on many presentations, he has his head off the stock....so maybe that is 'pre-mounted' but not 'fully mounted'. He lowers his head to the gun as he brings the gun and target together. Personally, I think its more efficient to move your gun than your head. I also think more people are able to coordinate their hands mounting the gun, than there head( that houses the eyes) down into the gun, while trying to merge the gun and bird in flight.

Bobby's Mileage Must Vary.

YMMV.

Best,

Will

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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 am
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Thanks again Will. If i could rephrase my question it might be how much at the ready position do you preset your head towards the stock? The followup question would be do you change the orientation of your head when moving from the ready position to the hold point or does your head just follow along with your knees and ankles?


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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:20 pm 
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I think shooters should learn all he ways and use what works for them. A new shooter may not have the experience to know this.

There are shooters -- like Bobby-- who do very well w/ their method and I do (as well as I can :wink: ) moderately by employing a mix of methods. But--if push went to shove , I could shoot everything pre-mount.

Certainly , you're right and it could be reasons other than not practicing enough , like the one you mentioned--gun fit.

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Our prentice Tom may now refuse
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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Location: Sharon, SC USA
SmokeJS wrote:
Thanks again Will. If i could rephrase my question it might be how much at the ready position do you preset your head towards the stock? The followup question would be do you change the orientation of your head when moving from the ready position to the hold point or does your head just follow along with your knees and ankles?


Smokey,
I start by placing my head inline with the gun at the ready position. If I can see in front of the trap to see the flash of the target from this position, all is well. If not, I will rotate my eyeballs..... 'cut my eyes' back to do so...if THAT isn't enough, I will rotate my head as needed. I want to see the flash of the clay as it leaves the machine, or if the trap isn't visible, I want to see the clay as early as possible. The only exception to this rule is if the trap is close, and behind me. I will then wait to see the bird as it passes me.

The earlier I see the bird, the more time I have to do my job.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Will

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 Post subject: Re: Cheek=good Jaw=bad
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:54 am
Posts: 616
Will, I recently picked up the Gun Digest book written by the late Nick Sisley. Been trying to find a way to get my dominant right eye over the barrels. Thought my issue was just head position but your suggestion to Nick Sisley makes me wonder if my core issue is mounting the gun too far out. No recoil issues but occasional arm bruising when just wearing a shirt.

Putting the gun in a more central starting position really makes the beads stack up when practicing the gun mount. Will try on the range this weekend but wondering if this is still your advice? Thanks!




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