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hey, i am trying to decide between the stoeger m2000 and the franchi i-12. i understand they have the exact same receiver/bolt assembly. so what makes the franchi $800 while the stoeger is $500. does the franchi have a higher quality barrel? Thanks

Believe it or not, the barrels for Stoegers, Benelli's and Franchi's are all made in one spot. The difference is in the quality of parts and workmanship. The quality of materials and parts used in the Franchi as well as the workmanship that goes into each shotgun far exceeds that of the Stoeger. While a bad apple is possible from any gun maker, it seems as though the quality control in Brazil is lacking compared to that in Italy. Just my opinion but I think the extra money is warranted.

The Franchi has shims to adjust the drop and cast on the stock. They also offer two other thickness of recoil pad to adjust length of pull. This may or may not be a factor, but for me it would justify the cost difference. I would not buy a gun over seven pounds unless it was going to see a lot of time as a clays gun. I would opt for the upland hunter with its lighter weight for a hunting gun.

I have friends with the Stoeger and they work well and for the money, it is a good gun. If it fits you, you could save a little. I subscribe to the philosophy of you get what you pay for and I think saving a little more for quality is worth it in the long run.

As mentioned the I-12 has the shims and gel-insert recoil pad. The I-12 is also more ergonomic regarding overall appearance and design, especially the stock and forearm. The I-12 is made in Italy and the 2000 is made in Turkey. Both shotguns are manufactured pretty much the same way in modern state of art plants. The bottom line in my mind is these shotguns are the same firearm when you take a closer look at both models operationally inside. Gun Test magazine actually found the 2000 to be more reliable when testing both these inertia driven semi auto models head to head. I suppose the I-12 Gun Test received from Franchi USA was a lemon. I also subscribe to the thinking that all manufactures build a bad one on occasion... Especially when considering semi autos these days are pretty much cookie cutter mass produced in the first place. For my money I went with the 2000... This shotgun has been a very reliable shooter. Fortunately for me the Stoeger 2000 stock dimensions fit my body frame really well. The I-12 overall modern design looks, shims and changeable factory gel recoil pad features I was not willing to pay a couple extra hundred for. The 2000 also weights less and is better handling for carrying upland bird hunting in my opinion, which was the deciding factor for me when choosing between these 2 shotguns. I would also like to handle and shoot a Franchi I-12 Upland Hunter sometime to see how it stacks up against the much more exspensive Benelli Ultra Light.

Here are the manufactures sites for both shotguns:

Franchi, Italy
http://www.franchi.com/index.asp?Lan=EN
Franch I-12 ID System Design
http://www.franchi.com/Tecnology/index.asp?ID=706

Stoeger, Turkey
http://www.vursan.com.tr/index_en.htm
Stoeger 2000 ID System Design
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/inform ... system.php

Best of luck and have fun shotgun shopping!

I went with the 2000 only because I wanted an inertia driven gun. In fact, I bought two, one for each of my sons. I shoot them on occasion. They work every time. One is the old model that has been around 5 or 6 years. The other is a New Model that I bought a couple of years ago. Both have been reliable.

I can't pass this up: My favorite uplands gun is a Franchi. The model 48. It was built 40 years before Franchi sold out to Benelli. Another favorite is a Franchi. It is a 20 gauge Black Magic. I'm not against Franchi guns. They were great quality before Luigi Franchi got out of the gun business. I haven't bought a Franchi since the sale in 1998 of the assets of Franchi. I think they are now built of parts made elsewhere and assembled in the Beretta factory in Italy.

If the 2000 fits, I wouldn't buy an I-12. If it needed shimming, I'd buy the I-12. I have examined both of them and can't visually ascertain any difference in the quality of the internal parts. Fortunately the New Model 2000 with the higher rib fits me fine.

It's really not fair comparing the I-12 or the 2000 with the 48AL EV. Not by a long shot in my opinion. It's hard to beat perfection... And why the hell did they ever discontinue the 12ga in this shotgun model any ways? They presently build this gun in a 28 but not the 12... Give me a break...!

My opinion only: The 48s are so good that Beretta made the decision not to continue the 12 gauge after they bought the assets of Luigi Franchi. Since the 12 gauge is the dominant gauge, it would cut into the sales of the inertia driven 12 gauges. This is just an opinion. 48s in 12 gauge are much in demand. I recently sold a 12 gauge for twice what I paid for it.

Since 1948, the 48 has been the upland hunter's dream. It is impossible to improve on perfection. I have replaced only one part on my 48. It was the extractor. It was worn to a nub but still working most of the time. It took a lot of shells to wear that extractor out. The part was $12. I bought an extra firing pin just in case. I never needed it.

In the early 1990s, American Arms bought a special run of the 48s from Luigi Franchi. They are beautiful guns with a special coating and gold trim. They named them the Black Magic. Unfortunately, they priced them 50% higher than the standard 48 and the Black Magic didn't last long on the market. I have one in 20 gauge that money can't touch. It is my dream gun. It has looks, class, and does what I want a gun to do.

IIRC, Brownells bought the parts cache when Beretta bought Franchi.

My nephew loves his two Benellis. He is arrogant and feels himself to be a bit better than low income folks like me. His bragging, maybe some lying, helped to convince me that I needed an inertia gun. I decided to get one but no way could I afford a Benelli. So I bought the 2000. For my 12 gauge use, it has proven to be satisfactory. However, in my price range, ability to buy, affordability, I had to buy a 2000 or do without. A retired cop can barely feed himself and pay the bills. So I saved my spare change and went on a shopping spree. My sons ended up with the 2000s and they burn a lot of powder. Thus far no problems.

I just bought a new Franchi I-12. Gun fits really well after cutting stock down....other than that it is a LEMON!! It is at factory after hunting opening pheasant weekend with it. It jammed several times and caused me to loose several roosters and huns. Bolt would not close all the way and therefore would not shoot. Also it is a pig to load shells. I trade guns often and this is definetly not one to buy. My Remington 11-87 and Beretta AL 390 never jammed and I am not much into cleaning them. I am going back to a Remington or Beretta as soon as I get my Franchi back! Woman at factory said "it probably just needs cleaned". It had shot less then a box of shells! It was new! Shells were Fiiochi #6 pheasant loads...never had any trouble shooting them in my Rem or Beretta. Woman at factory was rude also, I probably won't get the shotgun back until upland season is over! Needed to vent! Thanks

I-12 and M2000. Same action. Made in Turkey. Once cleaned properly, you can pretty well neglect it. That first cleaning is the most important. It has a thin film of crud, shipping grease that has to come out of the bolt and barrel lugs.

The I-12 is assembled in Italy from parts and the 2000 is assembled in Turkey where most of the parts are made by Stoeger SSA. Other than for looks, the 2000 is the best bargain. The I-12 is a 2000 in a tuxedo.

After the first day of hunting with the I-12 and the jamming trouble, I took it home and cleaned it very well. Went out the next day and still was not shooting every 3 or 4 shells. The bolt would not shut all the way. It was a new shotgun and I was very dissapointed. It has been at factory for several weeks now. My friend was shooting a very fancy Benelli (cannot remember the model number) with engraving all over it that he had just bought. We traded shotguns for a while after my Franchi kept jamming... his was a nice shotgun and very light. It did not jam, but was very hard to feed shells in also, much like the Franchi. That was his only complaint on his new Benelli. Apparently that is a Benelli trait??

I am going to side with EV about the stoeger 2000. I have one and not one problem and I really don't have to clean it much at all. with the gas operated ones that I have you MUST clean them each and everytime. If not it will be a big mess to clean. I have read in hunting magazines in the past that the franchi I-12 though (looks) nicely built. and built in Italy. the stoeger 2000 was a better buy for reliablity and cost. I read it maybe 2 -4 years ago.

j8120, after you cleaned it did you lube anything?? That is a problem with some of both models, the bolt not camming into the barrel ext. Just smear a little grease on the bolt head and while watching TV open the bolt halfway and let it slam shut about a 100 times, takes the high spots off. You also might be running it to dry!!!
Dave

Dave,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, after cleaning I did lube it with high quality gun oil. Not too much, lightly oiled. Hope not too sound like I am complaining too much but if this I-12 is that tempermental I do not want it. I used to have an old Remington 1100 that would jam on occasion...finally got rid of that and got a Remington 11-87. My dad bought one at the same time and both were awesome guns. Went to South Dakota one winter and it was minus 30 below...wind howling. Neither gun ever jammed, neither had been cleaned much. In fact, knowing my dad as I do I am pretty certain he has never cleaned his in all the years he has owned it. I had the 11-87 for several years, traded it off for a newer, lighter Beretta 390 with synthetic stock that had never been shot. I used it for many years and fired lots of rounds through it with no jamming. It was also a great gun. I like to trade and try out different models...must be my downfall! Bottom line is I like semi-auto's but not if they jam! Even like semi auto rifles. I am not too proficient with bolt actions. A few years ago when the Browing "Short Track" BAR came out I bought one in a 300 wsm. It is extremely acurate and has never jammed...no matter what the weather. (As long as you don't shoot the spendy Winchester "balistic" silver tips...then you are screwed. They don't jam but are very un-accurate in that little auto!!) A big improvement over the old BAR'S. Sorry to ramble on....I am not impressed with the I-12 Franchi...there was alot of "hipe" when they came out and from my experience it was very much overated. Thanks for the comments!

Dave,
Sorry I forgot to mention that I DID let the bolt slam shut many times after greasing it...and yes, I was watching Fox News while I did that! I have been an avid gun owner for over 20 years and do know a little something about guns...everybody makes lemmons and maybe that is the case...or maybe I just got a bad one! Anyhow, thansk for the response and good shooting! -j8120

Love my I12, no problems ever.Feels super and has good looks, and is very light so I can carry it all day.

I would recommend that anyone having problems with their Stoeger 2000s bolt not locking up in the barrel properly should put away the gun oil and try a semi-liberal coating of BreakFree CLP on all internal parts. I have never experienced ANY failure to function with my 2000, but I use gun oil to wipe down the outside of the gun only. In my opinion, for internal parts, regular gun oil is obsolete.

Gents, don't forget that the Benelli shims will fit the M2000 with a minor modification. I prefer the M2000 over the I-12 as they have the same action, but a different exterior. I just don't see $400 worth of pretty in the I-12. For those that like the looks over performance, the I-12 is the gun for you. I'll stick with my M2000 when I'm not using my AL-48.

IMO, the only decent semiauto that Franchi made was the AL-48.