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 Post subject: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:46 am 
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I was curious why there is not a forum or sub-forum for Helice?




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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:12 am 
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Most likely not enough folks shooting that are on here.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:29 am 
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sarge: I encourage you to get Jay to add a helice forum. I've shot helice about 10-12 times over the years. Mostly b/c I am at least 3 hrs from any place where I can shoot the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:36 am 
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I L O V E it, and it's getting a lot more popular locally. I shoot it recreationally about once per month with a great group of guys. Last year, we shot a few local tournaments. This year, we have a small tourney first Sunday of every month in Stockton, and now another has been added at a great guy's ranch the third weekend each month, so I now have more opportunity to shoot it. Only downside is I have to work it in between the conflicts with my sporting schedule, to which I give priority...

My suggestion is that if Jay adds a forum, it be "Helice & Flyer" (live pigeon) shooting, as most of the guys I know do both -- ZZ's originally being devised as an "inexpensive" way to practice for live pigeons. Thus the equipment, gun set-up and tactics for both are reasonably similar...

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:13 pm 
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USHA shows you have 4 clubs in the northern CA area:


Coon Creek Trap & Skeet Club
www.cooncreektrap.com
5393 Waltz Rd, Lincoln, CA 95648
Google Maps: Coon Creek Trap & Skeet Club
Phone: 916-539-8544 | Fax: n/a
E-Mail: n/a

Coyote Valley Sporting Clays
www.coyoteclays.com
1000 San Bruno Ave, Morgan Hill, CA 95037
Google Maps: Coyote Valley Sporting Clays
Phone: 408-778-3600 | Fax: n/a
E-Mail: n/a

Martinez Gun Club
www.martinezgunclub.net
900 Waterbird Way, Martinez, CA 94553
Google Maps: Martinez Gun Club
Phone: 925-372-9599 | Fax: 925-229-1886
E-Mail: n/a

Stockton Trap and Skeet Club
www.stocktontrapandskeetclub.com
4343 N Ashley Ln, Stockton, CA 95215
Google Maps: Stockton Trap and Skeet Club
Phone: 209-931-6803 | Fax: 209-931-6803
E-Mail: stocktonclays@att.net

I shot some when I lived in northern NV over the hill. Don't think anyone has a set up there any more.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Thanks for the responses. I have read about it and recently found out there is a new shooting club about 2 hours away with two Helice fields and registered shoots. Would like to get an idea on equipment, guns, loads, etc., and give it a try but, haven't found much information. I gathered this is a small corner of shotgunning, I'm assuming mainly due to few places to shoot. I talked to the owner of the new venue, he said that he tried it in Dallas and it was the most fun with a shotgun he had. Was surprised there wasn't a forum here because this site seems to cover everything in the shotgun world thoroughly. Maybe a poll to see if there is enough interest on here to have a forum? What say you?
Sarge


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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:23 pm 
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Any gun capable of two shots. Gun can be held anywhere from low mount to premount. 1oz 7.5 is the largest load (same as FITASC)

You can see layouts and rules here:

http://ushelice.com/about.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:44 pm 
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one oz loads of 7.5's at 1250-1300fps.

Tight chokes IM and Full.

Almost as fun as live pigeons and easier on the wallet and shoulder (1.25 ozs is the std pigeon load).

For people who like to keep moving it can be slow ,with just 2 rings.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Location: Natchitoches,La.
Sera... best I've seen in our area was 1 in 100 last year....wonder if they make any money
on the set up ? I suspect the set up cost a bunch....


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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:42 pm 
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ZZ course costs $$$ to set up. Newest machines are pretty impressive, automatically randomize and have 50-target magazines, so you don't need to hire a bird-boy to reload, but you need to spend about $25K to get a full field, 5-macine set up with auto randomizer launcher.

I am fortunate I get to shoot it almost as often as I like at very local places. FWIW, Coyote's field is private invite only, but I am on that invite list. Stockton, Martinez and JT ranch are close by too. I did not know Coon Creek had a ZZ field, but I know an instructor there so will ask him about it next local shoot I see him at.

Regardless, I reco that every one of you who has an opportunity to shoot Helice, try it at least once. You'll know right away if you're gonna be hooked or take a pass. Oh, and FWIW, it is clearly T H E most difficult shotgun game I have ever shot period, harder than flyers, harder than bunker. I've been in the money tying for 1st only shooting a 21/30 on a tough day.

And then if you really like it, you get sick enough to build up a gun dedicated to it :D

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:07 am 
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I've never lived even close to a Helice range. I never had a chance to try it. I suspect that's the reason why so few shooters do it.

And that's why it isn't really more popular.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:28 am 
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That and it costs about $60 to shoot 30 targets...

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:52 am 
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Pigeons go for $360 for 30 around here , plus the compulsory bet (usually $150-200).

ZZ's are harder , cuz there are no easy ones like you'll get w/ pigeons.

As I recall , the old (one at the time ) machines cost about $ 11 thou for a 5 machine set up. The newer semi-auto self-loaders are at least 2x that. That'll buy you 4 nice elec traps that don't have to be reloaded til you've shoot 300+ targets.

Like w/ pigeons , they are easy to hit and hard to kill. Wear your big boy pants or you'll be sad. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:03 am 
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sera wrote:
ZZ's are harder , cuz there are no easy ones like you'll get w/ pigeons.

Like w/ pigeons , they are easy to hit and hard to kill. Wear your big boy pants or you'll be sad. 8)


Zactly! :lol: And choke up -- I use IM/F to LF/XF -- separating the witness cap takes a lot of pellets, as does stoning a flyer. I've blown both wings off a ZZ and had the cap hit the ground with the ring still on it -- lost bird.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:47 am 
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I considered buying one for our skeet club. Finally contacted a distributor, he was going to Europe soon and could bring back a single machine for $5000.


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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:02 am 
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The machines have to be able to spin the birds at 5000 rpm (maybe more , I can't recall)....have to be armored and the cables from the controller to the machines have to be protected , too.

It is not a simple undertaking.

BUT, the .5 of a second that you have to shoot is about the most exciting .5 sec you can have w/ your clothes on. Those little contraptions are screaming for the out-of-bounds fence and any hesitation is a "lost" bird.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:46 am 
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railroad wrote:
I considered buying one for our skeet club. Finally contacted a distributor, he was going to Europe soon and could bring back a single machine for $5000.


Pass around a collection plate. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:11 pm 
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For $25K, you can set up a fully automated, magazine-fed, wireless operation 5 box ZZ parcours. Targets will run you about $1.40 each if you buy them in bulk. You can charge $2.00 to $2.50 per target, so it takes some time to pay off the machines; it isn't going to be a big money-maker till you build a following and start throwing tournaments.

But, a cheaper entry is available since many of the places throwing it are upgrading to these newer magazine fed machines. So you can find a used older style, hand-loaded ZZ machine parcours set with controllers complete for probably around $10K. Nothing wrong with these, take the same size course, but need to be hard-wired, line-powered and need a bird-boy/loader to reload after each shooter.

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:17 pm 
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You must be talking about these machines?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L4k9R1pAyc

Watch out with the music, the video has a heavy-thumping techno music background

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 Post subject: Re: Helice (ZZ Birds)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:35 pm 
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Yes, that's one of the two newer magazine systems available -- one is Italian and not sure where the other is made, but they both operate similarly.



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