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 Post subject: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:31 pm
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Hypothetical question - if an inventor were to devise a shotgun that could work seamlessly with today's clay targets, but made no noise and produced no recoil (let's pretend it "shoots" light impulses), would you be interested in using it instead of your current shotgun?




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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
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Nope , I’ve been at this too long. Just wouldn’t feel right.


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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:17 am
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Heck, yes. I shoot a 10lb gun, now, to mitigate recoil.


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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:11 am
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Location: Western Tampa, FL
Sign me up for no recoil!


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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:51 pm 
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I shoot 3/4oz 12 gauge loads for fun and practice - in an 8# gas gun, the recoil is minimal

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:52 pm 
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October wrote:
Hypothetical question - if an inventor were to devise a shotgun that could work seamlessly with today's clay targets, but made no noise and produced no recoil (let's pretend it "shoots" light impulses), would you be interested in using it instead of your current shotgun?


Nope. I want to hear the bang and feel the push.

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
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Location: Phoenixville PA
Just my humble opinion on what you describe ---

Light travels too fast (186 K miles per second) to compare with shotgun velocities and the leads we need with "fps. velocities" of shotguns. And to "concentrate" light so it could break a conventional clay target would require a very strong beam to give a "pattern-sized" spread cone with enough energy to do so.

It MIGHT make a decent simulation "game" to play on a screen on a wall, or a computer, but unless a decent delay were employed to simulate shotgun velocities at different distances, it wouldn't be a decent comparison to actual shooting in the great outdoors.

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
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desmobob wrote:
October wrote:
Hypothetical question - if an inventor were to devise a shotgun that could work seamlessly with today's clay targets, but made no noise and produced no recoil (let's pretend it "shoots" light impulses), would you be interested in using it instead of your current shotgun?


Nope. I want to hear the bang and feel the push.


Me too. I never really noticed or was bothered by recoil until the first time I shot my 870 Super Mag turkey with 3" Hevi-13 #6s. The thing literally kicked me cross-eyed! Matter of fact, even though I was pre-destined for it to happen anyway, I`m convinced it facilitated the PVD ( posterior vitreous detachment ) in my left eye. Geeze Marie what a jolt! It`s all good now though with a slip on Limbsaver and a custom, lightly padded shooting T shirt I wear under my camo. As an aside though, it`s amazing how little you feel when you shoot with a gobbler in full strut lined up in the red dot! I could probably have a 155 going off at my shoulder and wouldn`t feel a thing!

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:49 am 
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If said gun were used on gamebirds, would they be cooked and ready to eat when they hit the ground?

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:04 am 
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Kinda like a new electric car with no exhaust note. People want that engine noise

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:33 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:02 am
Posts: 2480
Location: KS
For no recoil, you bet! Near-light speed velocities, no.

At any distance that one could actually see a clay target, lead would be zero; one would shoot right at everything. My "I couldn't find the line" excuse for missing would be gone, and I would have to come up with something else less plausible.


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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:57 am 
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Like Marvin the Martian, I need the earth shattering Kaboom. Keeps me awake.

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:04 am
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EricB wrote:
If said gun were used on gamebirds, would they be cooked and ready to eat when they hit the ground?


Pretty much like a ray gun. So I would say " Yes " ! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Tidefanatic wrote:
desmobob wrote:

Nope. I want to hear the bang and feel the push.


Me too. I never really noticed or was bothered by recoil until the first time I shot my 870 Super Mag turkey with 3" Hevi-13 #6s. The thing literally kicked me cross-eyed! Matter of fact, even though I was pre-destined for it to happen anyway, I`m convinced it facilitated the PVD ( posterior vitreous detachment ) in my left eye.


That is one big drawback to recoil. I suffered a torn and hemorrhaging retina last winter while shooting one of my air rifles (they have a weird two-way recoil that can destroy a conventional rifle scope). I'm nearsighted and in my late fifties, so I was at risk. [Regarding the turkey loads, I tamed my turkey gun by adding a Knox SpecOps stock. It soaks up the punishment and allows instant LOP adjustment.]

But back to the original post: I think the noise and recoil of shooting is part of what makes it appealing at some level. I read something years ago about a big Japanese business office having a special room where executives could go and throw dinner plates against the walls, smashing them to their heart's content. This was supposed to be a great release of stress and good for mental health. There is some strange fascination with smashing things... bored kids never seem to pass up the opportunity to smash bottles or break windows in abandoned buildings.

I don't think clay target sports would be anywhere near as enjoyable without the noise, recoil, and shattering targets!

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:14 pm
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Location: Near, but not in, Portland, OR
The only thing I'd like to change, if I could, would be the noise. If they could make a hearing safe 12 gauge, that still fired bunch of shot, that would be awesome. (and didn't require a yuge suppressor hanging off the end of the barrel).

This is why the folks I shoot with, don't invite people that don't run suppressors. It's pretty awesome to go shooting for an entire weekend, and not have a single un-suppressed gunshot.

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:32 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:31 pm
Posts: 56
When I was thinking of this hypothetical, I really had in mind an invention that did away with recoil and noise from gunpowder use, and, as a result would be harmless to anyone, or anything, downrange except the clay target. Obviously, this invention would be useless for actual hunting or home defence, which is why I posted in the Clay Shooting forum.

I'm with those that would not want to give up the big KABOOM (despite the safety advantage), but I wasn't sure why I felt that way. The more I thought about it, the more I focused on the safety aspect and started thinking that there is an element of risk management (and the inherent responsibility that goes with it) that is something that many shooters find enjoyable. Anybody else feel that way, or am I just making crazy talk? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:42 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:02 am
Posts: 22
I don't particularly LIKE the noise and recoil, 410 on the skeet field convinced me of that.
As to other technologies ...well now, I could get excited about almost anything nutech (and more enviro friendly).

Light pulses (laser) yeah, maybe - - but either I would have to unlearn everything I've learned about leads or the algorithm would have to put a time lag in there to account for the (missing) shot flight time.

Wait a minute - - we have all that with video games, why even go outside ? <grin>


Last edited by clays-R on Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:13 pm 
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As far as a loud kaboom goes, it always seemed to me that IMR 7625 made the loudest boom of any reloads. Just an observation. I have no data

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:44 pm 
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casonet wrote:
As far as a loud kaboom goes, it always seemed to me that IMR 7625 made the loudest boom of any reloads. Just an observation. I have no data


That was some wonderful stuff. I just finished up a 12lb. metal canister of it, and there's no more to be found. :(

I hear (no pun intended) that black powder loads make a heck of a KABOOM but all I have is Pyrodex...

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 Post subject: Re: How important is the big KABOOM to you?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:25 pm
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Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
desmobob wrote:
casonet wrote:
As far as a loud kaboom goes, it always seemed to me that IMR 7625 made the loudest boom of any reloads. Just an observation. I have no data


That was some wonderful stuff. I just finished up a 12lb. metal canister of it, and there's no more to be found. :(

I hear (no pun intended) that black powder loads make a heck of a KABOOM but all I have is Pyrodex...


Pyrodex works just fine, in fact its hard to pick out who is shooting real black powder and who is shooting pyrodex by either the smoke cloud or the noise.
It sounds like a paradox but low pressure loads make more noise than high pressure loads of equal muzzle velocity. The high pressure load uses the first foot of the barrel to accelerate the shot and the rest of the barrel pretty much just guides the shot to the target. The low pressure load uses the whole length of the barrel to accelerate the shot so there is still a lot of pressure released when the shot clears the muzzle.



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