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 Post subject: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:55 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 1719
Location: SW Missouri
To start off, I am not a registered shooter. I have hunted all my life and I also shoot some clays on a fairly regular basis. The majority of my clay shooting (especially recently) has been skeet and trap. I have shot sporting clays and 5 stand on an infrequent basis over the years. When I have shot sporting clays and 5 stand I have shot the “hunter” type courses and not the tournament type courses.

Anyway, I shot a 5 stand I had never shot before out of state over the holiday break. There were 3 traps on that course that all threw similar birds that I just plain couldn’t hit no matter what I tried. More lead, less lead, sustained lead, swing through, pull away it didn’t matter. The targets looked easy but obviously they weren’t. The 3 traps were located about 50-55 yards out and slightly to your right from the stands. It was an open field so no trees or anything to obstruct your view. The birds were thrown so that they left the traps and went from your right to left while slightly angling closer to you. Also, it appeared that the birds were not thrown level – meaning that they were showing a little dome and not edge on and they appeared to curl or curve slightly back towards you during their flight. The other detail about the targets that I found odd was that they appeared to be slow targets – ie. not high velocity. When tracking the targets, my gun speed seemed excruciatingly slow when I matched target speed compared to what I am used to in skeet. So I’m looking for tips from the group on how to break targets like these.

I’ll also add that after thinking about this a lot, my self diagnosis, which could be totally wrong, is that I was giving the birds too much horizontal lead and not accounting for the speed and curl which was causing them to drop and therefore I was not factoring in enough vertical lead under them and I was shooting over the top and in front of them. Feel free to correct my thinking and offer up your take on the situation.




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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:47 pm 
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double20 wrote:
To start off, I am not a registered shooter. I have hunted all my life and I also shoot some clays on a fairly regular basis. The majority of my clay shooting (especially recently) has been skeet and trap. I have shot sporting clays and 5 stand on an infrequent basis over the years. When I have shot sporting clays and 5 stand I have shot the “hunter” type courses and not the tournament type courses.

Anyway, I shot a 5 stand I had never shot before out of state over the holiday break. There were 3 traps on that course that all threw similar birds that I just plain couldn’t hit no matter what I tried. More lead, less lead, sustained lead, swing through, pull away it didn’t matter. The targets looked easy but obviously they weren’t. The 3 traps were located about 50-55 yards out and slightly to your right from the stands. It was an open field so no trees or anything to obstruct your view. The birds were thrown so that they left the traps and went from your right to left while slightly angling closer to you. Also, it appeared that the birds were not thrown level – meaning that they were showing a little dome and not edge on and they appeared to curl or curve slightly back towards you during their flight. The other detail about the targets that I found odd was that they appeared to be slow targets – ie. not high velocity. When tracking the targets, my gun speed seemed excruciatingly slow when I matched target speed compared to what I am used to in skeet. So I’m looking for tips from the group on how to break targets like these.

I’ll also add that after thinking about this a lot, my self diagnosis, which could be totally wrong, is that I was giving the birds too much horizontal lead and not accounting for the speed and curl which was causing them to drop and therefore I was not factoring in enough vertical lead under them and I was shooting over the top and in front of them. Feel free to correct my thinking and offer up your take on the situation.


I'd say that your analysis is spot on! You missed mostly too far in front, and perhaps slightly over.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:36 pm 
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You're over the top and in front.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:12 pm 
Diamond Grade
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Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:28 pm
Posts: 1029
Location: Fresno,CA
Always pay attention to what the target is doing in you chosen, planned break point, always! Ask your self where’s in front, make your plan, call pull and execute the shot...have fun stay safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:27 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 3241
Overneath.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:03 pm
Posts: 410
Many times a target showing a lot of "face" is farther and faster than it appears. At the same distance it looks much larger and slower than an edge target. Often shooters will be behind these targets. Larry Corbett at RoseHill Sporting Clays is a master of fooling shooters with this face target. Think Swan vs Dove. A swan at 60 yards will look much closer if you are used to shooting doves. I have seen many excellent dove hunters shoot a box of shells before they figure out how far and fast a big old swan is. So, over, probably. In front, maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:52 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1142
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
Do what I do and just stick to Skeet and Trap where the targets "fly" like birds actually fly. I rarely shoot Sporting or 5 Stand because the chandelle and springing teal targets and other wacky flying targets just annoy me.


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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:07 pm
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Location: Virginia
Double20: Your description leads me to think that the target is what
I call a"landing duck". The target is best shot by imagining a duck landing on pond with its feet dangling beneath its wings. Shoot at its left foot--Right to left target, curling toward the shooter: shoot at 8 0"clock about 2 -3 barrel diameters below the target.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:22 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 3241
twohigh wrote:
Do what I do and just stick to Skeet and Trap where the targets "fly" like birds actually fly. I rarely shoot Sporting or 5 Stand because the chandelle and springing teal targets and other wacky flying targets just annoy me.


Those ain't bad. Just gotta learn to shoot them. Most newbies pick them up pretty quick.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:34 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1142
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
I didn't say I couldn't hit them, they just annoy me.


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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:50 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Houston, TX USA
It is imperative to see the motion of the target as vertical and horizontal components and remember to lead it in both directions.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:52 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:09 pm
Posts: 3241
twohigh wrote:
I didn't say I couldn't hit them, they just annoy me.


Why? They are gimmes. Good place to pad the scorecard.

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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:28 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:46 pm
Posts: 1719
Location: SW Missouri
ded&ded wrote:
Double20: Your description leads me to think that the target is what
I call a"landing duck". The target is best shot by imagining a duck landing on pond with its feet dangling beneath its wings. Shoot at its left foot--Right to left target, curling toward the shooter: shoot at 8 0"clock about 2 -3 barrel diameters below the target.


Good information. Thanks. What about gun movement? Dead gun hold at that point or some sort of gun movement with follow through?


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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:46 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 1217
Location: Soda Springs, Id.
you better be moving the gun if the target is moving.
otherwise the target won't be there when your shot gets there.


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 Post subject: Re: Troublesome targets
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:40 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:51 pm
Posts: 2729
Location: Houston, TX USA
fiver wrote:
you better be moving the gun if the target is moving.
otherwise the target won't be there when your shot gets there.

Very true, but only according to one style of shooting. I would have said one style of aiming but we all know you don’t aim a shotgun, right? :wink:



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