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 Post subject: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:14 pm 
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Are there any reports on these regarding effect on grass or landscaping? We've avoided the bio targets to date for several reasons, one of which is we don't want to turn our skeet fields into a desert scape. Wondering if the blackouts are better or different in that regard.



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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:47 am 
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Location: Attica, Mi
Lawry targets [ http://www.lawryshootingsports.com/ ] has bio targets that won't hurt the grass. Matter of fact, all their targets are bio's. Many won't buy them because " they're harder to break " is the first whine, or they're made in Canada. I run the shotgun venue for about 12 years now and Lawrys are a buck a box cheaper. A truck load - 1400 boxes - means a big difference to us. Anyways, give him a call and ask about his targets. Tell him Paul sent you.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:51 am 
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I believe we tried Lawry some time ago. They didn't agree with our machines, very high breakage rate. I wasn't involved with the test so I don't know if they adjusted machines for shoulder heights or made any other adjustments.

Blackouts are supposed to be $3/box less than pitch. Worth looking at, but not if its going to require extensive lawn care treatments.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:07 pm 
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Can't tell you about the grass but man it feels like good old times shooting them.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:57 pm 
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We have an order in for a truckload of targets. I was told there is supposed to be one pallet of the blackouts included so we can try them. If and when plants and trucks open up again.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:04 am 
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The pitch is what kills the grass. A machine adjustment might have been in order to stop the breaking.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:47 am 
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bladesmith wrote:
The pitch is what kills the grass. A machine adjustment might have been in order to stop the breaking.


This is incorrect.

Pitch targets are basically inert, at least when it comes to vegetation.

It's the sulfur binder in Bios that kills the grass, and if the Blackouts use the same binder they'll kill the grass just the same.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:25 pm 
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That is my understanding as well Ian. I think the solution is regular application of lime, but I don't know that for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:41 pm 
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John H wrote:
That is my understanding as well Ian. I think the solution is regular application of lime, but I don't know that for sure.


It is, but I'm not sure how it could be done well since you have particles all the way from dust to full pigeons sitting on the ground, so the attendant acidity is going to be all over the map by square foot. Making the soil too basic won't allow the grass to grow either. It might be OK if you go over the target fall zone with a lawn mower and chop everything up to a relatively uniform size first. Seems like a lot of work and additional time and cost at any rate, and still doesn't ameliorate the trap damage the dust causes in moderate to high humidity environment...

At the end of the day, the ONLY reason to use sulfur based targets is because you are governmentally mandated to do so, as is the case with a handful of clubs. Buying them because you save a buck or two a case is a false economy and extremely short sighted, unless you aren't worried about your club looking like a barren wasteland.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:17 pm 
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The sulphur binder was also very hard on the traps (rust). Machine maintainence must be diligent in keeping target dust off of them.


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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:07 pm 
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kyskeet wrote:
The sulphur binder was also very hard on the traps (rust). Machine maintainence must be diligent in keeping target dust off of them.


What type of Maint.? I have a couple of Traps of my own and use Bio's because they are easy to come by (local Wal Mart) when I need a few cases.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:21 pm 
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hopper810 wrote:
What type of Maint.? I have a couple of Traps of my own and use Bio's because they are easy to come by (local Wal Mart) when I need a few cases.


Everything rusts. Seals dry out quicker, Bushings dry out quicker... Everything just breaks down quicker. Imagine taking a back of fertilizer and just pouring it over your machine. If that analogy doesn't work, imagine battery acid.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:54 pm 
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Need to be diligent as to blowing dust off of trap, not letting it build up over time. It won't take long to see effect if you let it buildup over time. We've never used them at my club however another club I've shot at tried them when they first came out. They stopped after one load of targets due to the effect on the grass. The killing of the grass can be remedied with lime application.


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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:49 pm 
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I contacted Whit Flyer. The Blackouts have the same amount of sulfur as the old bios.


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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:03 pm 
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Took this at Sportsmans Warehouse. So they are just Bios with carbon black mixed in so the smoke black and not white. Something they should have done 15 years ago when these first came out. But they'll still turn your club into a moonscape.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:35 pm 
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Well, all knowing SGW, will bio clays also kill weeds?

s/f Steve


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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:09 pm 
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Gunsite Guy wrote:
Well, all knowing SGW, will bio clays also kill weeds?

s/f Steve


they will kill EVERYTHING, it's like roundup on steroids. Shoot enough of them and you will be left with a moonscape where they fall.

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:33 pm 
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At the clubs I frequent I've only seen orange targets...including only occasionally, black rims with orange domes.

This post is the first mention I've seen of the phrase "Blackout Targets". I don't give any thought to the composition of what's in the trap, as long as they fly.

I likely have shot bio targets, as now that it's mentioned, I have seen targets turn into whitish smoke when hit. Are the blackouts the same thing with just black color added to make solid hits more aestheticlly pleasing?


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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:42 pm 
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yes

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 Post subject: Re: White Flyer 'Blackout' targets
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:53 pm 
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I’m seeing a higher breakage rate compared to the earlier bio targets .




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