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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:09 pm
Posts: 5373
Location: Omaha, NE
I'll give this a whirl.

RE: mounting. you have to have a consistent mount because if the butt pad isn't in the same spot, then you eye won't be in the same spot, i.e. over the rib. This is important, not because you are aiming or looking down the rib, but so you have the same reference point for the gun in your peripheral vision. If your eye is in a different position relative to the rib every time you shoot, you cannot build consistency.

Whether you shoot one eyed, two or patched, the central vision needs to be on the target, and the barrel in your peripheral vision. Shooting with a patch or one eyed will give you more barrel awareness, but nevertheless you shouldn't be aiming or looking at the barrel.

A good mount also ensures that the gun will shoot where it is pointed, not where you are looking.



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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
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Nicely said


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:11 pm
Posts: 1033
Thank you xss !


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:08 am 
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
The problem with the car driving analogy is that clay target shooting is more like driving a car at speed between two vary narrow objects rather than cruising down a road. You will see the hood in your peripheral vision when you squeeze through there.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:15 am 
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Posts: 2593
Feeeetask! wrote:
The problem with the car driving analogy is that clay target shooting is more like driving a car at speed between two vary narrow objects rather than cruising down a road. You will see the hood in your peripheral vision when you squeeze through there.


That is why I said racing a car. Years ago I did a lot of autocross driving, SCCA Solo. Timed events through tight, coned off course, not wheel to wheel. Relatively low speed but extremely quick reaction time. The idea that your hands and eyes weren’t connected is only held by someone that has never done it. Look at the hood and you were off the course with cone rash on your car. The abuse from your friends was almost unbearable. There are lots of examples here that relate to clay target shooting. Some people simply refuse to accept them, over and over and over again.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 7:19 pm
Posts: 1901
Location: Indian Head Country Wisconsin
To the OP - tack driver. Focus on a tree twenty yards away and then point at it with your index finger while focusing your eyes on the tree. Now move your index finger one foot off the tree, then two foot, etc while still focusing on the tree. You can easily judge how far away your finger is from the tree (the lead) while focusing on the tree. Make the tree your clay target and your index finger the shotgun, and that is the concept of lead except the tree is going 30mph!


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:27 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Kansas
These five tips are from Phil Bourjaily from Field and Stream as to why people miss with a shotgun. I find they work for me. I do not own this material. This is paraphrased.

1. Keep both eyes open.
2. Keep your head on the stock.
3. Focus on the target - if you look at the bead, your brain will stop the gun.
4. Don't move your hands too fast (something nobody ever talks about).
5. Practice your gun mount.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2315
Location: Attica, Mi
How about this. From a low gun, as you mount the gun you looking ahead of the bird where you want the shot and bird to intersect. You'll be looking down the barrel and not doing a pull through, but more of a short maintain lead style. Everyone says the gun should shoot where you're looking, and it will using this method. Most of you guys believe in looking at the bird and " seeing " the barrels the proper distance ahead of it. Some of us believe in looking down the barrel to a space ahead of the bird and " seeing " the bird behind the barrels. I'm not looking at the bead, but through it where I want the shot to go. To each their own, have a nice day.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:27 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Kansas
bladesmith wrote:
How about this. From a low gun, as you mount the gun you looking ahead of the bird where you want the shot and bird to intersect. You'll be looking down the barrel and not doing a pull through, but more of a short maintain lead style. Everyone says the gun should shoot where you're looking, and it will using this method. Most of you guys believe in looking at the bird and " seeing " the barrels the proper distance ahead of it. Some of us believe in looking down the barrel to a space ahead of the bird and " seeing " the bird behind the barrels. I'm not looking at the bead, but through it where I want the shot to go. To each their own, have a nice day.


I've heard this method quoted too and it works well for a lot of people. I personally don't use it but I've heard that it can get people into that place where they get a good rhythm going with the mount, which is the other part of the equation.

For a mount, personally, I imagine poking the bird with the gun and then just think the words "cheek" and "shoulder". I know that as long as the gun is in both of those places then it's looking where I am. Then I just bring the gun up and put it into - whattaya know - my cheek and shoulder, and when the brain yells "now" just slap the trigger.

One thing I've noticed has really helped my shooting is to try and imagine as if you are mounting in slow motion. When I was new I tried mounting the gun as swiftly as possible and what would happens is my eyes would go to my hands because they were moving so fast in my peripheral vision, and it would take my eyes off the other stuff. So, either looking at the bird, or the area where you plan on intersecting the bird, as mentioned above, try mounting the gun a little slower than you might want. It'll also help make your mount smoother since you're not rushing.

Phil Bourjaily I think calls this "Hands Too Fast". I've never heard it discussed at length in any book or YouTube video except by him, but I find this advice helped me with my gun mount tremendously.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:49 pm
Posts: 4
I agree with 100%. When I started shooting 6 years ago I heard the same thing. Don't look at the barrels, focus on the target.
But if I focus on the targets front edge then how do I lead the target?
If the gun fits me well, it is aiming where I look, so how is lead developed if I am always looking at the front edge?
Eventually I got it, shooting 3 courses once a week and some practice in between. You have to start with easy targets so you don't get frustrated and work your way up to hard crossers and far targets. Sometimes if I can't tell what to do I will close one eye and aim. This helps me understand how far in front I need to be. After about 30,000 targets it came together for me. Your brain will eventually figure it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:27 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Kansas
Very good advice. A lot of it just comes down to repetition and learning from mistakes.

I am at a point in my shooting now where when I miss my brain tells me right away where my shot actually was. When you miss as much as I do you become quite good at that. :P

On a serious note, one of the reasons I think gun fit is important is not only to tell that the gun points where you look, but to get your brain in the habit of knowing where you missed most of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:53 am
Posts: 3
I feel the OP's pain.
I just started shooting clays to spend time with my father in law and I have to say it is the most frustrating shooting sport I've ever participated in.
Hardest part for me is when you miss, there's no feedback.
Was I low?
Was I high?
Was I in front?
Was I behind?
A combination of the two?
Who knows? Too bad! You missed and you don't know why.

When I miss, I would absolutely love to know WHY I missed.
It'd be awesome to know and be able to self-correct and improve my game, but it remains a mystery.


Last edited by DeltaEliteMan on Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:53 am
Posts: 3
Double post...


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5859
DeltaEliteMan wrote:
I feel the OP's pain.
I just started shooting clays to spend time with my father in law and I have to say it is the most frustrating shooting sport I've ever participated in.
Hardest part for me is when you miss, there's no feedback.
Was I low?
Was I high?
Was I in front?
Was I behind?
A combination of the two?
Who knows? Too bad! You missed and you don't know why.

When I miss, I would absolutely love to know WHY I missed.
It'd be awesome to know and be able to self-correct and improve my game, but it remains a mystery.



Have you had any lessons, or booked time with an instructor?


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:53 am
Posts: 3
No.
In Rochester area of upstate NY and don’t know of any.


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 Post subject: Re: Shooting advice
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
Posts: 5859
That’s too bad. It sounds as if you’re really thinking about this, my bet is you’d pick up a lot, and apply it quickly.




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