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 Post subject: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:57 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:07 pm
Posts: 11
I have shot across the course service rifle for years. I tried sporting clays last week and really had an enjoyable day. I watched many videos in advance and tried shooting with both eyes open. I did not hit anything until I flipped back to using one eye and aiming my Beretta SP1 using the mid bead and front like a rifle sight.
- Should I have started right off with both eyes open?
- Can I do any drills at home,like three targets, to learn both eyes open?
Thanks in advance.




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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:34 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 88
Location: Cambridge, IDaho
If you use this (or any internet forum) as your main source of getting started right shooting clays, you will probably wind up disappointed.
Get a couple of books or videos, see what speaks your language, and follow that advice.

BUT

The most important question you need to answer at this moment is "What do I want out of clay shooting."

You can break a limited number of clays (narrow angle, simple speed) the way you've described, but no accomplished sporting clays shooter does it that way.

Go ask where you shoot about somebody that might show you some basics, remembering that there are a few ways to do the same thing on a lot of targets. At least there are a few ways of talking about and perceiving what happens.

It's clearly better to shoot with two eyes open IF YOU CAN. (Some folks can't)

Google the horribly named "OSP three bullet drill" and you'll get a drill that can do exactly what you asked for. It's not the whole story, but it's a good start.

Seriously, though, decide what will give you the most pleasure shooting a shotgun, and that will lead you in the right direction. Have fun!


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:08 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:43 pm
Posts: 71
You need to figure out which I is dominant too.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:50 pm 
Tournament Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm
Posts: 141
Have you determined which eye is dominant for you as mentioned above? My brother was having the same problem, and was "aiming" to get hits. We took a lesson together, and one of the first things the instructor did was determine that my brother was left eye dominant, but was shooting right handed. The instructor made some suggestions and within an hour my brother was shooting well with both eyes open.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:24 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:07 pm
Posts: 11
I am lucky to be both right eye dominant and right handed. I tried to make a reservation for my first lesson but got No dice, Covid.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:48 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:45 pm
Posts: 1
I'm by no means an expert shotgun shooter, but I can tell you I just went through the same thing. For reference, I'm coming from a pistol shooting (one-eye) background for 20+ years. Just got back into shotgun shooting recently, and took a few lessons from Jack Bart up in Maryland. So here's the deal. Pistol / rifle you're looking at the front-bead / sight. Mount is not as critical. For shooting with a shotgun, mount is everything. Once your mount is dialed-in and consistent, the shotgun will shoot where you're looking. It's sort of a zen like transformation when you figure this out and stop chasing the target with your gun. You look at the target with your eyes, and as long as your form / mount is correct, your hands will get you there. You don't look at the gun. I have jack behind me repeating "head on the gun, eyes on the target"...

Good luck! it was an eye-opener (literally) for me when I made the switch to two-eyed. And it really only took one lesson with Jack's guidance.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:06 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 10929
Location: Phoenixville PA
Unless you have an eye dominance problem, both eyes open is the way to go. It's easy to test for.

Also, did you shoot the rifle course (iron sights) with both eyes open?

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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:47 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:29 am
Posts: 417
Location: Port St Lucie FL
Batjuice wrote:
I am lucky to be both right eye dominant and right handed. I tried to make a reservation for my first lesson but got No dice, Covid.


Not sure who you contacted to take a lesson but would suggest you don't give up, there are a lot of options. An instructor can help you learn how to shoot with both eyes.
Joining NSCA will give you access to lots of information including contact info for instructors in your area, instruction videos, and much more and it only costs $25 per year, well worth the price in my opinion even if you have no plans to shoot registered targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:57 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:18 pm
Posts: 666
As a coach, it's often difficult to get one-eyed shooters to see the other half of the world. Finally developed some techniques to get them to see with both. Three shells drill is good, I use a variation of it. The key is to learn, as stated above, NOT to look at the gun and make some sort of mental calculation about forward allowance, but to allow the gun to become invisible and only see the bird. I grew up using both eyes for everything, including rifle, so it's a natural thing for me, but for some of my athletes, it's been a struggle.

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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:25 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 3099
Location: North Central West Virginia
I don't understand why it's so hard for people to shoot with both eyes open. I think in most cases it's just an excuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:37 am 
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I cannot use both eyes , like what would be ideal, when shooting a shotgun. I am right handed and right eye dominant. But , when the gun is up alongside my face , my left eye tries to take over.

I use a small patch on my left lens in the upper-outer quadrant that keeps my left eye from taking over by blocking the ends of the bbls from my left eye..

I do not align the beads nor do I look at the bead , beads , rib nor bbls. I look only at the clay (bird). If I "see" the bbls at all , I see them only in my peripheral vision--and only as a blur.

When I went to the patch , I went from D to AA class in one year and M class in 11 more months. I have multiple All State and AA patches.

Remember , we are all different and there is no one right way. Anyone who tells you that is a lying buffoon.

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Our prentice Tom may now refuse
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For now he's free to sing and play
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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:57 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
Posts: 6534
Location: Mascoutah IL
For years I shot clays with one eye closed until I hit a plateau and realized I just wasn't going to get any better until I started shooting with both eyes open. When I started shooting with both eyes open my scores declined dramatically until my brain got accustomed to all the sight information and new sight picture. Took a month or so shooting every weekend before I began to see it was going to help me a lot to shoot with both eyes open.

Today, if I try to shoot one eyed its as if I'm blind. I also now shoot pistol with both eyes open and often shoot rifles that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:54 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:41 am
Posts: 46
Location: E TN
I definitely think 2 eyes has advantages if it doesn't cause other issues as mentioned above.

I started out 1 eyed and done ok. Flip flopped back and forth between 1 and 2 for a few weeks then 2 eyed clicked one day and it was amazing the difference. I haven't shot 1 eyed since.

My wife was the same...but it took her a lot longer to swap. I used to try to help her with seeing through the gun on some shots..but she never understood what i was talking about. She flip flopped for a few months...then one day i was working with her on some easier targets and it clicked for her. She had the same amazing eye opening experience as I did....and on the way home she said she finally knew what seeing through the gun was since she opened both eyes..and that she didn't really see lead anymore. I'll keep it short but she consistently picked up 12-15 birds that weekend.

So, I recommend try 2 eyed on some close easy targets for a bit..maybe some that are zero lead shots and see what happens...then gradually move to some harder shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:25 am 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:44 pm
Posts: 182
Location: Lowcountry of SC
My eye dominance flipped when I was about 9. My Dad taught me to go from right hand to left hand shooting. I shoot rifles (iron sights and scopes) with on eye closed. I shoot shotguns and pistols with both eyes open. I shoot pistols both right and left handed with both eyes open.

I am relatively new to the Sporting clay game. I am working on seeing the bird not the barrels. It is difficult at this time because if I move on the bird too long (i.e., long crossers), I have an issue with checking the gun. I shot with a Master level shooter this past Thursday during a social shoot. He worked with me about not riding the bird too long and keeping my conscious mind occupied. My problems shows up as a hitch when my eyes go to the barrel momentarily from the clay. He said this makes my smooth move turn to a jump and I fall back where I miss behind. He said they don't back up. Once I train myself to stay on the bird and let the gun be guided subconsciously, I will be better at this game. Getting good at this game requires eye discipline and trust in the "see the bird" mantra. Shoot with someone better than you, it is enlightening.

JB


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:09 pm
Posts: 642
Location: Massachusetts
Batjuice,
It took me 6-8 months to transition from one to two eyed shooting. My shooting schedule is usually 3 times a week.
I started out with a black patch on my off-eye glasses lense for a month or so. I switched to a transluscent one and shot with that for a quite while, eventually cutting it down to a tiny patch that just obscured my barrel with the gun mounted. My last patch was a commercially availbale one called Magic Dots (I think). It is gin-clear, but still obscures vision a bit. I used that for at least 6 weeks. When I finally took the step of shooting patch-free, it felt natural. I now find it very difficult to shoot with one eye. Your results may vary.


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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:20 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:21 pm
Posts: 5208
Location: UK
marshfield wrote:
Batjuice,
It took me 6-8 months to transition from one to two eyed shooting. My shooting schedule is usually 3 times a week.
I started out with a black patch on my off-eye glasses lense for a month or so. I switched to a transluscent one and shot with that for a quite while, eventually cutting it down to a tiny patch that just obscured my barrel with the gun mounted. My last patch was a commercially availbale one called Magic Dots (I think). It is gin-clear, but still obscures vision a bit. I used that for at least 6 weeks. When I finally took the step of shooting patch-free, it felt natural. I now find it very difficult to shoot with one eye. Your results may vary.
Congrats. Not many people are as committed as you. Most seem to give up within a couple of weeks which is a shame as 2 eyes are always better than one.

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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:13 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:28 pm
Posts: 1147
Location: Skeet and Trap Fields
How weird am I? I shoot rifle and pistol with two eyes open and shotgun with one eye. I'm right handed/right eye dominant but I find when shooting a shotgun that my off eye gets easily distracted. I've shot that way for 50 years. While no champion skeet/trap shooter, I'm a decent recreational shooter avg in the mid-90s and I've had a lot of hunting success with upland birds and waterfowl.

When shooting benchrest rifle, using two eyes is a must as one eye looks at the sights/target while the off eye looks at the wind flags looking out for any changes in direction/velocity. I had no problem mastering that skill, but shooting 2 eyed with a shotgun just feels odd and I really have no problem picking up targets and my focus is on the target and not on the beads/barrel.

We are each individual and while I encourage all new shooters to learn to shoot with both eyes, for myself, one eye works.


Last edited by twohigh on Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:11 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:25 pm
Posts: 2383
Location: Attica, Mi
My problem was my off eye wanted to take over once in awhile. I never knew when, so I also went to a patch just big enough to block out the barrels. As said, we're all different.

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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:06 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:50 pm
Posts: 580
Location: The wilds of rural central California
Coming from a USPSA Practical Shooting background I use both eyes for awareness of the course of fire but will droop my off eye for the longer or more precise shots. When I picked up shotgunning a couple of years ago I personally found that starting with both eyes open to catch the flight of the clay (awareness phase) then drooping the off eye for focus for the shot itself came fairly naturally for me.

I don't know much about the "proper" way of doing things in this sport but it seems to work pretty well.....at least for me.

tp

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 Post subject: Re: Both eyes open ?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:14 am 
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_________________
Nsca # 540300. Been loving this game since 01.

Our prentice Tom may now refuse
To wipe his scoundrel master's shoes
For now he's free to sing and play
O'er the hills and far away.


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