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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:31 pm 
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Fun to discuss......but most everyone would be soiling their britches after 50 consecutive ‘chips’, much less 99:-)




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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:35 pm 
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jwgworld wrote:
BREAKEMALL wrote:
I will take 99 ink balls, over 100 chips any day.
Best,
Breakemall
Western North Carolina

And you will lose the big trophy, money, groupies, etc. to the guy that gets 100 chips...



Wait.. what? There are groupies? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:59 pm 
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Location: On the wrong side of the river, Austin TX
When practicing trap shooting using a Garmin Xero S1 trap trainer, I'm finding that short reaction times, less than 0.6 seconds = smoke even if the center of the pattern is 9 inches off target but but on those 1.09 second or longer reaction times, I'll only get a break even if the pattern is dead center. Let that target get 40+ yards away and the sure kill zone of the pattern shrinks rapidly as the "golden BB" zone of the pattern expands. Those Olympic shooters have amazing reaction times.

You wanna see that station 1 high house bird turn into smoke in skeet?, shoot it before it gets to the center stake.

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
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B.L.E. wrote:
When practicing trap shooting using a Garmin Xero S1 trap trainer, I'm finding that short reaction times, less than 0.6 seconds = smoke even if the center of the pattern is 9 inches off target but but on those 1.09 second or longer reaction times, I'll only get a break even if the pattern is dead center. Let that target get 40+ yards away and the sure kill zone of the pattern shrinks rapidly as the "golden BB" zone of the pattern expands. Those Olympic shooters have amazing reaction times.

You wanna see that station 1 high house bird turn into smoke in skeet?, shoot it before it gets to the center stake.


Gotta be the best signature line on the site:-)


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:07 pm
Posts: 2309
B.L.E. wrote:
When practicing trap shooting using a Garmin Xero S1 trap trainer, I'm finding that short reaction times, less than 0.6 seconds = smoke even if the center of the pattern is 9 inches off target but but on those 1.09 second or longer reaction times, I'll only get a break even if the pattern is dead center. Let that target get 40+ yards away and the sure kill zone of the pattern shrinks rapidly as the "golden BB" zone of the pattern expands. Those Olympic shooters have amazing reaction times.

You wanna see that station 1 high house bird turn into smoke in skeet?, shoot it before it gets to the center stake.


^^^^^^^^^^


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:42 am 
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Location: Creston, Iowa
Black smoke or chips...... Those that imply 100 chips are better than 99 smokes are the shooters that have never or will never shoot a hundred straight. Most are experienced, but remain without confidence in their shooting skills. Looking for some advantage to make up for the lack of skills or consistency. Shooters that have never learned how to break big scores.

.....Those that have choked for smoke may not be the highest average shooter, just higher than most. They have learned not only how to break targets center pattern, but also to correct mistakes (chipped targets) before scoring lost. The learning part of shot placement is more than knowing where the POI is set. It is also the handling and timing of each shot and the recognition of personal form.

The reason the high average shooter scores better is understanding exactly what it takes to perfectly place shot on a moving target. The feed back is how the target breaks and even those like Neil Winston who videoed shot placement always used a full choke on all trap targets. Yes I knew Neil and have shot with him. Argued with the man as well as agreed with him. He was one of the best people in clay target shooting we will ever know. As much as he railed against target break reading, he read every shot he made and judged his performance shot by shot by the way the target broke. He was like all of us, looking to be confident and to remain confident every shot.

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
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Location: Mascoutah IL
maltzahn wrote:
Black smoke or chips...... Those that imply 100 chips are better than 99 smokes are the shooters that have never or will never shoot a hundred straight.


You don't know what you are talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:29 am 
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DEG wrote:
maltzahn wrote:
Black smoke or chips...... Those that imply 100 chips are better than 99 smokes are the shooters that have never or will never shoot a hundred straight.


You don't know what you are talking about.


To paraphrase an old Nike commercial, you don't know Maltz

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Eye on the rock, head on the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
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Location: Mascoutah IL
xsshooter wrote:
DEG wrote:
maltzahn wrote:
Black smoke or chips...... Those that imply 100 chips are better than 99 smokes are the shooters that have never or will never shoot a hundred straight.


You don't know what you are talking about.


To paraphrase an old Nike commercial, you don't know Maltz


Doesn't matter. I know for a fact he is wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:02 am 
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Maltz's point is a bit arcane, but on point in this: it is highly unlikely a shooter that regularly chips would "chip" 100 targets, and far more likely the guy who can smoke 99 will make a 100 a lot more frequently than the guy who chips.

BUT, that being said does not alter the fact I'd rather have 100 chips recorded on my scorecard than 99 smokes ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:10 am 
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Jack I agree with I'd rather have 100 chips comment.

However, I'm no world class shooter, only 1 100 in trap, 99 in skeet and 91 in sporting but when I'm shooting my best most of my targets are smoke.

There has always been at least one thank goodness, chipped target thrown in, but I've never chipped and chunked my way to a good score.

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Eye on the rock, head on the stock.


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:54 am 
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And I probably should have also added: BUT... I would likely feel a whole lot better about the 99 smokes than the 100 chips ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:41 pm 
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actually Maltzy is 100% right. There ain't never been a shooter who shot 100 chips straight.

But you'd have to have shot 100's straight many times to realize it.

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:57 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Posts: 278
Smoke is nice, and I am seeing more of it. Bottom line is I take what I can get.

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:43 pm 
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sera wrote:
actually Maltzy is 100% right. There ain't never been a shooter who shot 100 chips straight.

But you'd have to have shot 100's straight many times to realize it.


I’m willing to put up decent money it can’t be done......


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:20 pm
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Rooster booster wrote:
sera wrote:
actually Maltzy is 100% right. There ain't never been a shooter who shot 100 chips straight.

But you'd have to have shot 100's straight many times to realize it.


I’m willing to put up decent money it can’t be done......

Obviously I am in no position to say that. But I agree 100%.

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:34 pm
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Be one hell of a shooting exhibition....


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:29 am
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Location: MI
Can anyone name somebody who has chipped 100 straight?


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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:56 am 
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Boy'z.....I have 38 years of shooting ATA registered targets, just short of a quarter million recorded, just received my 100,000 singles pin. Shot many 100 straights and several 200 straights (200 in 3 different state championships) and usually carry over a 97% average in singles shooting in all weather. Documented by the ATA and available to anyone wanting to check that claim out.

I know 100 straights and those that shoot them. Who I would like to know is a chipper willing to bet me 10 bucks a target in a 100 bird shoot off. Is that decent enough money? :wink:

Maltz

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 Post subject: Re: Smoke
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
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Location: Mascoutah IL
sera wrote:
actually Maltzy is 100% right. There ain't never been a shooter who shot 100 chips straight.


No, he's factually wrong and he didn't say what you claim.

He said, "Those that imply 100 chips are better than 99 smokes are the shooters that have never or will never shoot a hundred straight" and I know for a fact this is a false statement.

The first person I hear say this was a AAA skeet shooter in response to being teased and asked if he was going to count a target he just chipped.

The point of the phrase is that they all look the same on the score card. Broken targets are not graded based on number of pieces.

I'm not implying that 100 chips are better than 99 smokes, I'm making a statement of absolute fact. Now, I don't shoot 100 straights every week or even every month, but I have shot several in every gauge except for 410.




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